I wish we took this situation seriously in February and March.

I wish we had a national coordinated effort to kill the virus before it spread.

If we locked down in mid winter, we could have killed the virus without a vaccine, because it would have been "burned out" like a fully contained fire provided no more fuel.

I hope we do have a vaccine on the horizon, but none of the reports seen to come from a peer reviewed medical research report yet. I am frightened that these were engineered to inflate the pharma stocks before the end of the year..

My hopes that fear is unfounded.

The only virus that was successfully killed was smallpox and that was through vaccination.

Web Link

SG= pro-fire, anti-vaccine

Victor,

If only people listened to the EXPERTS, like the ones in this New Your times article "Showing results for can viruses be destroyed by isolation "Coronavirus Can Be Stopped Only by Harsh Steps, Experts Say "
found here (Web Link in March 2020!!!

The article stated:

"Those experts included international public health officials who have fought AIDS, malaria, tuberculosis, flu and Ebola; scientists and epidemiologists; and former health officials who led major American global health programs in both Republican and Democratic administrations.

The virus would die out on every contaminated surface and, because almost everyone shows symptoms within two weeks, it would be evident who was infected. If we had enough tests for every American, even the completely asymptomatic cases could be found and isolated.

The crisis would be over.

Obviously, there is no magic wand, and no 300 million tests. But the goal of lockdowns and social distancing is to approximate such a total freeze.

To attempt that, experts said, travel and human interaction must be reduced to a minimum.

Italy moved incrementally: Officials slowly and reluctantly closed restaurants, churches and museums, and banned weddings and funerals. Nonetheless, the country’s death count continues to rise.

The United States is slowly following suit. International flights are all but banned, but not domestic ones. California has ordered all residents to stay at home; New York was to shutter all nonessential businesses on Sunday evening.

But other states have fewer restrictions, and in Florida, for days spring break revelers ignored government requests to clear the beaches...

Within cities, there are dangerous hot spots: One restaurant, one gym, one hospital, even one taxi may be more contaminated than many identical others nearby because someone had a coughing fit inside.

Each day’s delay in stopping human contact, experts said, creates more hot spots, none of which can be identified until about a week later, when the people infected there start falling ill."

Victor, just like how we failed to act regarding HIV when Dr. Don Francis at the CDC wanted to act quickly to prevent it from becoming impossible to control, we did the same here. It was people like you that said we should not take steps early on to prevent spread, right?

Vaccines are NOT the ONLY way to kill a virus, and so far WE DON'T HAVE ONE.

Follow up:

The Pharma industry has made press releases but NO PEER REVIEWED MEDICAL RESEARCH YET.

The FDA may provide what is called EMERGENCY APPROVAL, but that does not mean it is PROVEN to work, or PROVEN to be safe, only that it is the ONLY thing they have.

They did the same for AZT for HIV and it turned out not to work at all if not made people more sick if you read this article "Early Use of AIDS Drug Is Termed Ineffective" (Web Link In fact it was politics that made the FDA approve it without sound science.

So don't be surprised if it happens soon for these vaccines.

We will likely learn years later the vaccines are not effective or safe, by then the Pharma companies will have made a lot of money, and they are protected from liability of injury under federal law.

Please note that The NY Times article does not say the virus can be “destroyed”, it says it can be “stopped”. Big difference.

More misinformation- international,flights are operating now
Web Link
California has not ordered all residents to stay at home . NY has is not shuttering all essential businesses on Sunday evening.

Hard to believe that someone is hoping that vaccines are not effective or safe.

In response to Victor Bishop who wrote:

“Please note that The NY Times article does not say the virus can be “destroyed”, it says it can be “stopped”. Big difference.”

OK no argument there, but isn’t STOPPING the infections just as good. Yes the virus will still be out ther, BUT NO ONE AS LONG AS THE CONTROLLS ARE KEPT ON WILL BE AT RISK. You wrote:

“More misinformation- international,flights are operating now

Web Link”

Yes, you CAN travel, but with MANY steps. In a lot of countries, you are required to be in quarantine, and many countries DO NOT ALLOW AMERICANS IN. Didn’t you read this:

“Some states order residents returning from international destinations to quarantine, while the C.D.C. ADVISES ALL RETURNING AMERICANS TO AVOID CONTACT WITH OTHERS FOR 14 DAYS, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY LIVE.

WHILE AMERICANS CONTINUE TO BE BARRED FROM MANY COUNTRIES, INCLUDING MUCH OF EUROPE, here is a list of countries, in alphabetical order, that as of Nov. 24 were open to U.S. citizens, or were expected to open soon.”

So, in reality you are technically correct, but in practice it is not even really occurring. The amount of INTERNATONAL travel is so low many flights are still CANCELLED by the airlines. Your trying to make it sound like everything is NORMAL. You wrote:

“California has not ordered all residents to stay at home . NY has is not shuttering all essential businesses on Sunday evening.”

But if the current track continues that may be required again. So far we are going in thee WRONG direction. You wrote:

“Hard to believe that someone is hoping that vaccines are not effective or safe.”

THAT IS A BIG LIE. I did not HOPE vaccines were not good or safe. I simply stated that EMERGENCY approvals have a HISTORY of being wrong. I said I want PROOF that they work and are safe PRIOR to use on the people. You really are trying to be a public danger, aren’t you?

SG stated that international travel is banned. I showed it is not. The fact that numbers are low is irrelevant. So, conclusions- false information from SG

The issue that if the current track continues may require a lockdown is irrelevant. SG statements about NY and California were false.

Which emergency approvals have been wrong? The fact you want proof is irrelevant. Don’t get vaccinated.
Public danger should be your middle name.

Victor, you wrote:

“SG stated that international travel is banned. I showed it is not. The fact that numbers are low is irrelevant. So, conclusions- false information from SG

You try to "kill the messenger" all you want. You can try to use the "FAKE NEWS" argument all you want as well, you are not an authority with any medical background to establish your credentials. I don't have any either, but I do read from "RELIABLE" sources, and your wound up biting you back. THe REALITY is that you claimed that INTERNATIONAL travel was not being “controlled” anymore and I proved you WRONG from your own research. You wrote:

“The issue that if the current track continues may require a lockdown is irrelevant. SG statements about NY and California were false.”

The facts are we had 2 lulls in the COVID storm, and the Santa Clara County Department of Health proves it when social controls were complied with or when the fires in effect forced everyone to stay at home, and every time we tried to "normalize" we had another infection explosion, AND YOU KNOW IT. You wrote:

“Which emergency approvals have been wrong? The fact you want proof is irrelevant. Don’t get vaccinated.

I provided one case regarding AZT already, you ignored it, that is your choice. You wrote:

“Public danger should be your middle name.”

REALLY? I promote safe behavior and you do not, right?

I can use the “fake news” claim in this case, since you falsely stated that international travel was banned. I made no claim that international travel was not being controlled.
SG claims about California and NY false

FYI, I do have medical background and have worked on viruses for over 30 years. I have had papers published in many peer reviewed scientific journals. However, I do not claim to have a too secret government clearance.

Regarding AZT- on the list of WHO essential medicines
Web Link

In response to Victor Bishop you wrote:

“I can use the “fake news” claim in this case, since you falsely stated that international travel was banned. I made no claim that international travel was not being controlled.”

SELECTIVE OMMISSION IS JUST LIKE LYING. At least I admit my mistakes. You really need to bone up on your “ethics”. you wrote:

“SG claims about California and NY false”

Please provide ACCURATE proof you are correct. In other words stop making up fiction. You wrote:

“FYI, I do have medical background and have worked on viruses for over 30 years. I have had papers published in many peer reviewed scientific journals. However, I do not claim to have a too secret government clearance.”

But as of yet, you post under a fake name? Please provide us a link to one of your published paper? To me you are VIOLATING your Hippocratic Oath Defined as:

“A Modern Version of the Hippocratic Oath

I WILL APPLY, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE SICK, ALL MEASURES WHICH ARE REQUIRED, AVOIDING THOSE TWIN TRAPS OF OVERTREATMENT AND THERAPEUTIC NIHILISM.

I WILL NOT BE ASHAMED TO SAY "I KNOW NOT," NOR WILL I FAIL TO CALL IN MY COLLEAGUES WHEN THE SKILLS OF ANOTHER ARE NEEDED FOR A PATIENT'S RECOVERY.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. ABOVE ALL, I MUST NOT PLAY AT GOD.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I WILL PREVENT DISEASE WHENEVER I CAN, FOR PREVENTION IS PREFERABLE TO CURE.

I WILL REMEMBER THAT I REMAIN A MEMBER OF SOCIETY, WITH SPECIAL OBLIGATIONS TO ALL MY FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS, THOSE SOUND OF MIND AND BODY AS WELL AS THE INFIRM.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.”( Web Link

I gather the reason you will not provide your TRUE identity is that you swore the oath specifically to:

“I WILL PREVENT DISEASE WHENEVER I CAN, FOR PREVENTION IS PREFERABLE TO CURE.”

You are VIOLATING your oath. Should we trust you?

In response to Victor Bishop you wrote:

You wrote:

“Regarding AZT- on the list of WHO essential medicines”

Time magazine did a great story on AZT titled “The Story Behind the First AIDS Drug” found here (Web Link

It clearly stated:

“As it turned out, their first weapon against HIV wasn’t a new compound scientists had to develop from scratch — it was one that was already on the shelf, albeit abandoned. AZT, or azidothymidine, was originally developed in the 1960s by a U.S. researcher as way to thwart cancer; the compound was supposed to insert itself into the DNA of a cancer cell and mess with its ability to replicate and produce more tumor cells. But it didn’t work when it was tested in mice and was put aside.”

THe story also said:

“After 16 weeks, Burroughs Wellcome announced that they were stopping the trial because there was strong evidence that the compound appeared to be working. One group had only one death. Even in that short period, the other group had 19. The company reasoned that it wouldn’t be ethical to continue the trial and deprive one group of a potentially life-saving treatment.

Those results — and AZT — were heralded as a “breakthrough” and “the light at the end of the tunnel” by the company, and pushed the FDA approve the first AIDS medication on March 19, 1987, in a record 20 months.

But the study remains controversial. Reports surfaced soon after that the results may have been skewed since doctors weren’t provided with a standard way of treating the other problems associated with AIDS — pneumonia, diarrhea and other symptoms — which makes determining whether the AZT alone was responsible for the dramatic results nearly impossible. For example, some patients received blood transfusions to help their immune systems; introducing new, healthy blood and immune cells could have helped these patients battle the virus better. There were also stories of patients from the 12 centers where the study was conducted pooling their pills, to better the chances that they would get at least some of the drug rather than just placebos.”


THje report also said:

“But even after AZT’s approval, activists and public health officials raised concerns about the price of the drug. At about $8,000 a year (more than $17,000 in today’s dollars) — it was prohibitive to many uninsured patients and AIDS advocates accused Burroughs Wellcome of exploiting an already vulnerable patient population.

In the years since, it’s become clear that no single drug is the answer to fighting HIV. People taking AZT soon began showing rising virus levels — but the virus was no longer the same, having mutated to resist the drug. More drugs were needed, and AIDS advocates criticized the FDA for not moving quickly enough to approve additional medications. And side effects including heart problems, weight issues and more reminded people that anything designed to battle a virus like HIV was toxic.”

Of course NOW it isn’t even prescribed anymore under current treatment. Only after the push for more safe and effective medicine were “CREATED” for the disease.

“ SELECTIVE OMMISSION IS JUST LIKE LYING. At least I admit my mistakes. You really need to bone up on your “ethics”. you wrote:”
I did not selectively omit anything, you claimed that international air travel was banned. I showed that it was not. Nice try.

“ Please provide ACCURATE proof you are correct”
California has not ordered all residents to stay at home, NY is not shuttering businesses on Sunday night. Since you are making these claims it is on you to,provide the proof for your comments, otherwise they are fake news and lies. Nice try.

“ But as of yet, you post under a fake name? Please provide us a link to one of your published paper? To me you are VIOLATING your Hippocratic Oath Defined as:”
Not everyone in the medical,professions is a medical doctor. So Hippocratic oath is not relevant, do you think I would provide someone like you with my real name??? LOL.

“ Should we trust you?”
Coming from some one who makes up stories ( airline travel, California , NY in just this thread alone.) not to mention previous comments about outdoor dining, signed affidavits, and countless other lies. And who has admitted to manipulating the “like” system on this forum to his benefit. The question is who would trust you???

In response to Victor Bishop you wrote:

“I did not selectively omit anything, you claimed that international air travel was banned. I showed that it was not. Nice try.”

Actually many cou8ntrys ban us from entry unless we are considered “essential” travelers. I hope the readers WILL sdo their own research and make up their own minds, they WILL see that your “exaggerations” are clear. You wrote:

“California has not ordered all residents to stay at home, NY is not shuttering businesses on Sunday night. Since you are making these claims it is on you to,provide the proof for your comments, otherwise they are fake news and lies. Nice try.”

I never said WHAT day the shutdowns will occur, your putting words and conditions up that never existed. I hope that we don’t have to, but WE WILL eventually. You wrote:

““ But as of yet, you post under a fake name? Please provide us a link to one of your published paper? To me you are VIOLATING your Hippocratic Oath Defined as:”

Not everyone in the medical,professions is a medical doctor. So Hippocratic oath is not relevant, do you think I would provide someone like you with my real name??? LOL.”

WOW so you now are saying you have no interest in PREVENTION of disease because you were not a MD? Get a load of this one. The reality is that you post under a “FAKE NAME” and expect us to believe you? Remember Ronald Reagan agreed with the phrase “Trust, BUT VERIFY”. You prevent us from the verification process. And yes, I use MY REAL NAME, and it has been used as a weapon against me by people like you. I really suspect that if we did read any of your research your research might not have the credibility you are CLAIMING here? Please just give us one peer reviewed article so we can put this to bed? You wrote:

“ Should we trust you?”

Coming from some one who makes up stories ( airline travel, California , NY in just this thread alone.) not to mention previous comments about outdoor dining, signed affidavits, and countless other lies. And who has admitted to manipulating the “like” system on this forum to his benefit. The question is who would trust you???”

Actually, unlike you I say DON’T TRUST ME all the time. I say READERS MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND ACT ACCORDINGLY. You on the other hand are the AUTHORITARIAN and demand that the people here behave per your instructions.

You are terrified that no one will just follow your instructions and you want to attack anyone that encourages independent action.

“ I never said WHAT day the shutdowns will occur, your putting words and conditions up that never existed. ”

But you stated: “ California has ordered all residents to stay at home” indicating that occurred. If you wanted to speculate on a date you would have said “ California will order...”
Stop trying to twist yourself into a pretzel.

This conversation is over. No point in arguing with someone who cannot stand anyone questioning his outrageous claims

In response to Victor,

Where did you get the quote " California has ordered all residents to stay at home" it is not on this page. I in fact NEVER said that. You are misquoting my statement that read:

" The facts are we had 2 lulls in the COVID storm, and the Santa Clara County Department of Health proves it when social controls were complied with or WHEN THE FIRES IN EFFECT FORCED EVERYONE TO STAY AT HOME, and every time we tried to "normalize" we had another infection explosion, AND YOU KNOW IT.”

You try to misquote others so much. You try to mislead others so much.

The CURFEW may not order people from not leaving their home, BUT THEY HAVE NO WHERE TO GO after 10pm till 5am.

It has been in effect another "shelter in place" order like the one issued earlier this year.

I never said you couldn't leave the home, I said the SIP is being restored. You can go and do whatever you NEED to stay safe at home. Even taking walks to get fresh air and exercise.

You and your TEAM are responsible for the pain and suffering that has happened because you demanded that we stop taking all measures possible to prevent spread. AND YOU KNOW IT.