The City council clearly cant implement a simple RV ban they need to make things harder than they need to be .They have had 4 years to fix this problem and have gotten nowhere now they want to put it off even longer wow . They lack vision and have no clue plain and simple

There are 21 homeless (though they live in a mobile HOME) students in schools? What part of property taxes are these families paying directly or through rent? It's not the kids fault, sure, but what kind of irresponsible freeloading adults are we enabling? This is ridiculous! That's over $200k a year in flat out stealing of resources that could be allocated to kids whose parents are not burdens to the community.

In the next election, vote for anyone willing to take an immediate stand and ban the RVs NOW. Anyone can see the situation is out of hand.

This is what you get when you dont elect council members who are properly trained to understand the impact of their decisions. What a mess. The easiest thing they could have done is to get the police to enforce the 72 hour parking rule.

As far as a late night ban, this is useless. Behind in-n-out burger and Uno Mas (Grant road) there is already a ban on parking overnight. There are a couple of RV's parked all of the time on that side street. I've never seen the restriction enforced.

So what's the point? Pass more restrictions that will not be enforced?
What a disaster

FYI to all of the people pushing for immediate action on this ban:

I'm assuming you're all fans of the Constitution?

Then you all should know that the ACLU deemed this ban unconstitutional because the City didn't provide an adequate alternative for RV residents. Their safe parking lots initiative would've been enacted AFTER the immediate RV Ban. Meaning 200+ federal and state income taxpayers would've been displaced immediately, effectively making this a ban on poverty.

I rent out an apartment, but the only thing that separates me from these people, is that I haven't yet had an emergency that's made me unable to to pay my rent and kicked me onto the streets.

It might not be a common reality to many affluent folks in Mountain View, but to those of us who live paycheck to paycheck, this is a very scary and unsustainable reality.

@Decvon

The ACLU is the ultimate over reaching organization. Maybe it is second the the NRA. Either way, the ACLU defended NAMBLA too. Common decency and societal standards are not the ACLU's concern. If you don't know NAMBLA, look it up and be disgusted.

I’m very disappointed in my City Council. Part of being in politics is making tough decisions, and you guys failed us by not enforcing the RV ban. NOW word is out that you can come from elsewhere and park your RV in Mountain View and you can get your kid(s) into our schools without paying any property taxes. Ugh! Enough is enough!

If RV street parking interferes with bike Lanes, it makes perfect logic to have RVs move from 2-6 am when we have peak bike lane usage. I was so excited to hear the ban had not been enacted, and then hearing that in January vehicles will have to move between 2 and 6 a.m. I realized what a sneaky back end way to confuse people about what's happening and to enact an RV ban without saying that it's an RV ban.

@Peter said
> I’m very disappointed in my City Council. Part of being in politics is making tough decisions, and you guys failed us by not enforcing the RV ban. NOW word is out that you can come from elsewhere and park your RV in Mountain View and you can get your kid(s) into our schools without paying any property taxes. Ugh! Enough is enough!

The McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act signed by Ronald Reagan in 1987, "ensures homeless children transportation to and from school free of charge, allowing children to attend their school of origin (last school enrolled or the school they attended when they first became homeless) regardless of what district the family resides in" (quoted from Web Link ). Banning RV's would place an even greater hardship on Mountain View families who become homeless, and our school district would be responsible for paying for their travel to and from school if they are forced to move father away.

People living in vehicles are our neighbors.

Re: homeless "stealing" resources by having kids in schools

Web Link

Only 25% of K-12 funding is from local / property taxes. The majority comes from the state.

And how should we classify prop 13 beneficiaries? There are plenty of parents who inherited homes and benefit from prop 13 lock-in. You'd call that theft as well, I assume?

We could use a little more compassion and empathy.

Okay @Kris, they are only stealing $50k+ a year. About the salary of an additional teacher.

interesting those in favor of the ban show up and comment on this site
but did not come to testify in large numbers in public at the cc meeting

why?

i suspect they do not want to appear inhumane in public or do not have constructive ideas except to say 'you guys have had 4 years to solve the problem - just solve it' (well it is complex)
another random thought -- some of us are at risk to join those in vehicles through no fault of our own -- just get rid of those on the streets who remind me it could happen to me too

mel

All of the people living in RV's are doing so by choice. They could move somewhere less expensive. They just don't want to.

Q: Why don't they just move?
A: They can't afford to, especially without a job lined up on the other side.

Q: Why do they chose to live this way?
A: Because the other options are live on the streets in a tent or die.

Q: Why are so many people so heartless to their fellow humans?
A: Greed, Ignorance, and a tiny bit of Malice.

I'm confused about the idea of banning the RVs between 2-6 am. So... that means it's OK to park your RV during the day and block the bike lanes... when they are in use? What am I missing?

The 2AM - 6AM ban will have a big impact. Where will they go from 2AM to 6AM? It's not going to be easy for them. Then they will have the added difficulty of finding a parking space at 6AM. I think it will be enough of an inconvenience that it will drive out a lot of the RV dwellers and will keep them out. Surrounding cities need to adopt similar measures or they will be inundated with RV's from Mountain View.

If the purpose of the ban is to protect bike lanes and pedestrian safety, banning RV's only in the middle of the night works against the council's own logic.

For the record, I support making RV parking illegal on most roads and around parks as a matter of public health and safety but also providing designated RV parking areas with city services and priority for employed people, those with children, etc.

But the 2-6 ban strikes me as disingenuous and I wish the council would be more upfront about their goals. This strikes me as a halfway measure that won't satisfy either side.

For the record (since it's buried in the article)...

The initial motion made by Matichek was to approve the staff recommendation of a 24/7 citywide ban (which staff would've been unlikely to make if the City Attorney were concerned about legality) and compromise by pushing the enforcement date out to Dec 31, 2019.

Those in favor: Matichek, Abe-Koga, Kamei
Those opposed: McAlister, Ramirez, Hicks, Clark

I'll leave it for others to assess whether this reflects the previously stated position of your elected councilmembers.

This proposal would've still allowed time for "Safe Lots" to come online, and for companies with RV campers amongst their employees to make space on their own lots (they've already had ample time to do this).

Residents have been patient. It's extremely disappointed that Council did not close on this. It's probably top 3 in citywide importance to residents, and it's been out there for 4 years.

Why is banning overnight RV parking, at a minimum in residential neighborhoods, not a no-brainer that Council members can support?

Correction to Prior: The Residential "no-brainer" ban should be 24/7.

Have people forgotten that Section 19.111(c) of the MV City Code already bans living in vehicles parked on the street? The city council could just direct the police department to enforce that.

"No vehicle parked upon any public street shall be occupied or used for dwelling purposes."

Done and done. No need to debate anything until 3am. (Note, that this language was proposed to be removed by the "oversized vehicle ban" they were considering on Tuesday)

City council, your voters spoke at the ballot box.

There is no middle of the road compromise between the vocal group who want to let RVs to park on our streets and the majority of the voters who said “no”

You know this election was a referendum on this very issue, so you need to get those RVs off the streets soon not - months from now.

City council members; I voted for most of you thinking that you would make a difference in our community and actually listen to the residences of Mountain View. I am so disappointed that you continue to allow people to live full time on our city streets in RV's. Have you gone to our neighborhoods and to city parks where RV's are parked and seen that many are setting up things outside their RV's therefore spreading their belongings on public streets and private properties?Have your used a restroom at a city park near the RV camps and seen how dirty they have become with trash and diapers left around etc.? I do not understand why the City of Mountain View does not use the parking area E near the Shoreline Amphitheater and designate it as an RV parking area. This parking area is huge and seems like it is almost never used unless there is a huge event and even then RV's could park there after the event is over. Portable showers and porta potties could also be easily placed there for them to use. The city could charge RV's living there a nominal fee to help pay for use of the area and services. So come on city council members! Figure out a plan to help get this resolved.

So till the city council grows a pair, the good people of Mountain View will continue to deal with not being able to use our bike paths, park near the swimming pool during big swim meets and look around the big RVs blocking the view of traffic. We will continue to use our property taxes to keep the rest rooms open. I have seen first hand (only because I can see the rvs parked from my porch) some of them are locking their dogs inside the RV’s all day while they are working. In Menlo Park you cant park on the street in front of your own house. They have been enforcing that since the early 70s. If little Johnny gets hit by a car because an RV’ is blocking his path there will be a huge lawsuit and they will win because the city has known for years it’s dangerous. City council should meet every night till they find a solution.

A massive thank you to the vehicle residents who despite many socioeconomic difficulties and prejudice they face in their lives have been able to mobilize themselves and elevate their voices. I believe Councilmember Clark, as quoted in this article, rightly identifies that the detrimental impacts to the livelihood of an already suffering population ought to and must take a moral precedence to the inconveniences that are cited by many of the proponents of the ban.

It is true that the City of Mountain View will not solve this homelessness & housing crisis on it's own. But it hurts to know that there are members of our community who are so willing to pile vitriol, stigma, & blame on some of the most vulnerable residents in our community while they are desperately trying to stand back up. And it hurts all that much more to witness the moral buckling of our elected leaders in Mountain View when they respond to the attack whistles of our more intolerant residents by actually trying to criminalize the last resort available to our neediest neighbors.

I hope that one day it comes to pass that elected officials at all levels of government will use their leadership to hold a line that engenders greater empathy within our morally misguided neighbors and helps them overcome the natural human tendency towards defensiveness. I hope one day our elected leaders will dedicate themselves to the tireless pursuit of solutions against the root causes of inequality, even against all the ways that the dark sides of others might discourage them from doing so.

The good people of Mountain View will continue to deal with not being able to use our bike paths, park near the swimming pool during big swim meets and look around the big RVs blocking the view of traffic. We will continue to use our property taxes to keep the rest rooms open. I have seen first hand (only because I can see the rvs parked from my porch) some of them are locking their dogs inside the RV’s all day while they are working. In Menlo Park you cant park on the street in front of your own house overnight .They have been enforcing that since the early 70s. If little Johnny gets hit by a car because an RV’ is blocking his path there will be a huge lawsuit and they will win because the city has known for years it’s dangerous. City council should meet everynight till they find a solution.

This article should have been labeled as the Op Ed it is rather than being presented to readers as a legitimate news story.

The Voice claims to be interested in investigative journalism, so why not investigate and find out exactly how many RV dwellers are displaced MV citizens or local employees and how many are simply transients? We could then have a serious conversation about how to deal with the situation.

A majority of homeowners, including myself, would like to banish RVs from the streets. They're unsightly and a danger to motorists, cyclists and pedestrians. That doesn't mean we're unsympathetic to local families priced out of housing or down on their luck. I'm sure many people would support helping fellow MVers find a safe place to park or an affordable apartment. Non-MVers, on the other hand, should be ticketed, towed and sent packing ASAP.

If they enact a 2 to 6 am ban I will call the police every night and use all the city manpower enforcing the ban I urge everyone who is fed up to do the same . If we pull together we can break the city at there own stupid game .

In an ideal world a community would see those in need and try to find ways to help, or at the very least coexist. Instead, the Haves devote themselves to making the Have-Nots go away, never mind if they have anywhere to go.

It's possible to BOTH feel compassion for the homeless and low-income people and want RV's off the streets.

I think the city should quickly designate safe places for RVs to park, with accessible showers and restrooms, at a nominal fee, but primarily at taxpayer expense.

I also think that RVs can be a health and safety hazard and should not be allowed to park anywhere at any time in our city. I wish this conversation wasn't so either/or. I wish the people who support the RV ban would speak with more compassion. And I wish that those supporting the RV dwellers could try to understand the other side and the reasonable arguments for putting limits on where RVs can be.

Just enforce the existing laws. Why the police can pick and choose what articles of city code to enforce? If there is an article that prohibits using a vehicle parked in the public street for dwelling then enforce this article. Otherwise why does anyone have to obey the law?

I will remember this at next election and not vote for those who did nothing about illegal rv dwellers on our streets maintained by our tax money. This town is looking disgusting and less safe.

Here's a proposal:
Designate some safe parking spaces for RV but only with a permit. To obtain a permit, you have to prove your last stable residence was in Mountain View. That way we show compassion to people that have lost their residence and need some temporary place to stay while not opening the gates to people from all over the area to move here as the other cities flat out ban all RVs.

Why is it only Mountain View’s problem? Why aren’t Tom Myers, Community Services Agency of Mountain View and LOS ALTOS, ACLU and religious leaders & housing advocates lambasting Los Altos council at their council meetings until 3 AM? It’s a REGIONAL problem.

Chris Clark will be coming up for re-election next year, if he chooses to run again. VOTE HIM OUT!!!

McAlister is termed out, choose wisely for 2 new candidates for council!.

Both Chris and John are termed out next year. Margaret and Lisa will have to defend their seats.

4 Council seats available in 2020. So...you gonna turn on conservative Margaret and Lisa? Yeah, I didn't think so.

But neither one will collect my vote. They are cruel council members. Don't take the humans involved in the equations into consideration. Heartless and humourless.

@There is no one to vote out!
Spoken like a true RV dweller!

What you do not understand, or care about is, the majority wants to vote your RV out of the city! If no one is above the law, then the law applies to them as well, just as it does to me and you.

In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.

@jordydog1

The MV Voice published such a story a few months ago: Web Link

I’m progressive in my politics and I donate as much as I can afford to homeless, especially the Downtown Streets Team in San Jose (where I grew up). But I want these RVs gone. Allowing them in our neighborhoods is not right. Enforce the current parking rules.

Sally, honey, if you want to roust the poor and homeless, your politics ain't progressive.

what about the city's tax payer's--somehow we got forgotten in all this. If you can't afford to live here then don't live here. If we keep going like this every street will be filled with these RV's. Our surrounding city's send them here, many do not work here but are looking for free space to live with offers services . They do not pay taxes like the property owners have to to keep our public services going. Schools, parks, garbage, clean up after the mess many leave. At the very least charge them a fee until we can work out a permanent solution. It's only going to get worse as we are paralyzed.
I had a friend visit yesterday who has not been here in the last 3 years and her words--wow Mt view is looking like a slum.

Ellen your friend is right it is a slum .

The 2-6am no parking ban is a joke. It already exists and isnt enforced near the in and out and nob hill shopping plaza. I encourage all of you complaining about the rv's here: go to ask mountain view and file a complaint about the rvs that continue to defy the no parking 2-6am rule and park overnight every night across from in and out near grant and el camino. There is a Leprechaun brand RV parked in that area that hasnt moved in years. Its a young couple no kids, i see them coming and going. Please complain! It takes the same amount of time as writing a comment here and has more impact. The city has to do something to enforce the no parking 2-6am laws we already have! If residents don't file complaints, nothing will change.

I know how to solve the biggest problem going on here. really, it all boils down to an old gospel principle. prince and the pauper. let's all just trade places for a month. the haves come and live in an rv on the street, without any access to their bank accounts or other means- and the rv'ers go and live in their nice, safe, comfortable home or apartment. the haves exchange their lives with the have-nots. for a whole month. then lets all switch back to our true lot in life, and reconvene the city council, and see what kind of laws we want to pass, and what kind of mindset we want to have, concerning the rv problem--- I bet there'd be a whole lot of people finding a new kind of religion---

@Harry
Me: eye roll.
Be realistic. I’d love for my kids to go to the super nice Atherton schools but I’m not going to park an RV over there because they wouldn’t allow it and because I simply can’t afford to live there. I, fortunately, can afford MV and that’s my choice. If I couldn’t afford MV I’d move somewhere more affordable. Plain and simply.

Peter, when did you choose to be able to afford to live in Mountain View? How did you make that choice?

@ Law
When I “decided” to work my BUTT off to go to college by night while working FULL TIME, all the way through college, and, voila! I got a job than enabled me to live here. Hard work pays off. ( Had I not got a job that enabled me to live here, I would have “decided” to move somewhere more affordable.

Camping on the streets was never legal.

They made a choice when they made the Police not enforce the law already on the books.

Not enforcing a legitimate law should be breaking the law in itself.
interfering with a public safety officer at the very least.

Everyone saw this coming years ago, except those that made the decision to let them stay parked on the streets.

Resulting in lowering property values and some of them dumping sewage tanks into the storm system so it flows to the creeks and bay creating a serious health and safety concern.

I am sorry they can't afford to live in this city, but THAT is the short answer. They can't afford to live in this city, plain and simple.

Here lies the future of Mtn.View, if we do not stop voting for these "progressive" liberal candidates for council.

Link here, Petition launched to recall Mayor Garcetti over LA homeless crisis.
Web Link

Which of those were the choice to afford to live in Mountain View? Going to college? Accepting whichever job you currently have? Why do you think the folks living in their vehicles didn't make the same choice?

I consistently see the RV dwellers referred to a "poor and homeless" or "victims of circumstance". Please - I do understand your sympathetic attitude if this were the truth, but you have no facts to back that up. Your "holier than thou" attitude is false and baseless. Please get the facts before making your false claims, or you only slow the help for those legitimately due assistance.

Ask the police who are assigned to monitor the RV situation, for the actual statistics. The FACT is that there are drug rings, prostitution, gun rings, theft rings, people who are able to pay rent but choose to freeload and not pay taxes, well paid Google engineers dodging property taxes, out of town people taking advantage of MV lax enforcement, out of town landlords who dump junk RVs here and rent them out for profit, and yes - a small minority of former MV renters who could no longer afford rents here and chose to live in an RV to remain in our city.

If we spent our (so far) nearly $2M to help those very few who actually are former residents here that can no longer afford it - we could get these people housed. Your tax money is picking up the expense for all the others as well - and the expense of cleaning up the sewage dumped on the streets, the trash, the police intervention, the blocking bike lanes, blocking line of sight, etc.

The MV Voice doesn't tell you the whole truth. The article mentions the family that lost their house and had no option other than moving into an RV on Mountain View streets. They neglect to tell you that that family was from Sunnyvale - and moved here because Sunnyvale enforces the law against street dwelling. Thus, yet another out of towner who your tax dollars support, in place of the RV dweller's original city.

We need a strict screening of who is on our streets, and if you are here illegally, or involved in illegal activities, move on. This is a regional issue - and Mountain View cannot be responsible for the entire Bay Area.

@Law
That’s your argument? Really?
Here it is, plain and simple: if one can’t afford to live in an area, move to somewhere where one can afford.
I know for a fact that there’s an RV near me whose owner got a job through PD and they quit after a week or so. And now I see him just chillin each day outside his RV while he smokes his cigs. The same guy let’s his dogs just crap all around his RVs I even had to write a note on his truck and give him poop bags. That same guy was drunk one night and screaming at cars passing by, including my wife who was passing by in her car. And you may wonder whys why I don’t want RVs near me. Well, there u have it.

you completely misunderstand my comment, peter. it was not made in defense of the more fortunate, but in defense of the rv's---

Peter, I haven't made any argument in our discussion, I asked you to elaborate on your belief that you made the choice to be able to afford to live in Mountain View and why others have chosen not to. Why did you find yourself unable to answer my question, and instead needed to rant about a particular person?

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Because the MVPD knows how toxic and futile it is to try to reason with people like Law and harry. Waste of time. The RV enforcement is coming. When residents engage city leaders via an appropriate manner such as Ask MV, and make intelligent, factual arguments, they listen. They don't listen to nonsensical, non voting, non legitimate MV residents i.e. people who either own or rent a permanent dwelling with an actual residential address the pist office delivers to. Also, no one has called out Supt Rudolph for attending the city council and making statements in supports of kids living in RVs on the streets? How dare he make official statements to the city council in his capacity as Supt in support of RV dwellings without a board discussion. I think we parents are so tired of him noone even calls him out anymore on his outrageous lack of judgement and entitlement over his MVWSD fiefdom. Its summer so i guess he figures the parents arent paying attention.

Well im sure someone will call me out for minor typos but the key themes of my comments stand.

Some of these so-called indigent 'RV Dwellers' are gainfully employed. They live in campervans and RV's (some are expensive and clearly not a a cheap housing option) and just move around like a game of Wack a Mole, and why? Because Mountain View allows it (unlike Zero tolerance Los Altos). Why isn't a permit process a good first step to separate those in need from those who just want to game the system? Let's help those truly in need find stable housing, and let's send the freeloaders on their way.