Let the smoke heads burn all they want. Just put a concrete plug in their chimeny. You're fire, your smoke: deal with both.

@Long time coming - "smoke heads" really? You must be a newcomer to the Bay Area. Wonderful. Rolls Eyes. A few years back, people couldn't use too much electricity. There was an energy shortage and they actually would have rolling black outs. We had to use fireplaces/CHIMNEY. I'll even go a step further. Since it seems anyone can whine about everything nowadays, you calling people "smoke heads" offends me. Please stop. Eyes still rolling. You might want to consider moving to the country to breathe that clean fresh air. Oh but wait, how would you keep warm?

First off, I think you meant "SERIOUSLY!?"
To clarify, I was born at El Camino in 1962 and have lived in MV all my life, and though I have a fond memory for the good old days, I also have a firm realization that times have changed. I know this realistic view is irrelevant to any rhetorical conspiracy theories, but I do enjoy reading those posts for a chuckle.

No. I meant SERIOUS as in ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?!

Have a wonderful evening and stay warm however you choose to do so. I will be staying warm with a nice BIG FIRE in my fireplace with an unplugged CHIMNEY! Not to be confused with YOUR fire!

Oh, OK, you left those words out originally, but no matter, I know change is very hard for some.
I won't stop you, go for it, light that fire. Ignore the speed laws if you feel they're silly too. That's why we have cops.
You can then continue to use your fireplace to burn your citations and then complain about the fine that will build up. Even though you'll be the only one responsible for your breaking the law, I'm sure you'll feel it's the fault of someone else.
Enjoy the law because it is now the law :)

I find it ridiculous that fires are permitted in the summer, when the air quality is far worse and people burn bbqs for entertainment, AND prohibited during winter, when people might actually use it as an alternative to the insanely high PG&E electric prices. Believe it or not, some homes in Mt. View only have electric heating and, again, INSANELY EXPENSIVE!

You want to talk about all the pollution PG&E generates? Now that would be interesting!

"Wood smoke from the Bay Area's 1.4 million fireplaces and wood stoves continues to be the largest source of wintertime air pollution in the region,"

Sounds like they are simply making a priority on reducing winter time pollutants from the worst winter time pollution source. Works for me.

Interesting that the SFBA Overlords of the Air have not considered the newer wood stoves that have the catalytic converters like automobiles have today. Or the same type of fireplace inserts as well. Wood stoves will be the only heat available after The Big One...Sometimes Old Farts are resistant to change. I don't like some of the changes to my older " Baghdad by the Bay " I grew up with. Or losing " Fleischhacker Zoo " or the original amusement park. But the only constant thing in the world is change, so people should get used to it or stay dinosaurs that need two brains to think with.

@SERIOUS doesn't remember the past correctly.

Those power outages were during warmer months (late spring and early summer) due to a confluence of events, mostly around a handful of heat waves, heavy A/C use, and insufficient supply (a bunch of power plants were out of service due to accidents, damage or maintenance).

That ended up giving PG&E some financial challenges as they bought power on the spot market.

@SERIOUS isn't serious, at least about being truthful of California's recent energy history.

Another reader mentioned above: "Interesting that the SFBA Overlords of the Air have not considered the newer wood stoves..."

It looks to me like they have. The article says that you can still install and use EPA-certified devices. Here is a list of them: Web Link

There are about 500 different stoves to choose from in that list. I prefer radiant floor heating powered by natural gas myself, but if you prefer burning wood or pellets, you can still do it without harming your fellow citizens. Everybody wins!

Smoked brisket is delicious any time of year, but even more so when enjoying it annoys nincompoops.

@Reader - yep I think you are correct. I wasn't being untruthful, just didn't remember the details.

@BBQ Billy - better enjoy them as much as you can now before all the whiners are able to dictate how, when and what you will be able to eat! :\

@SERIOUS:

Well, if you don't know the details and you make a statement that isn't factually accurate, then you are not being truthful. To be truthful, you must tell the truth and/or point to sources that defend your statement. You did neither.

The best option sometimes when you don't know the details is to keep your mouth shut lest other people start taking you an unreliable source.

Still, it's your Internet reputation at stake. Feel free to make whatever factually-void statement you want to make. It see it is quite fashionable with this year's crop of political candidates.

@READER - well it was the truth as I remember it!

That's pretty hilarious actually! Because we all know everything we read on the internet is FACTUAL.

There we go..........someone thinking they can tell me what to do or say. I knew it was only a matter of time.

And thankfully my life is a little bit more than my " Internet reputation". I could care less what other people (especially ones like you) think about me.

The asbestos shredding party will be held upwind of SERIOUS?!'s house.
Then we'll have an Oakland style side-show on his street.
Don't try and tell me what to do.
Mmmmeh!

@SEROUS:

The problem with commenters with poor factual backing is that it damages the reputation and reader engagement for the site operators.

If I run into an online forum, bboard, etc. that demonstrably shows a large percentage of commenters who are spouting nonsense, that devalues the site as a whole, not just those particular commenters.

You may not care much about your own accuracy levels, ability to correctly recall details, or interest in providing coherent and thoughtful commentary based on accurate facts, but I will be you that someone at Embarcadero Media cares about that sort of stuff.

The Internet isn't just about you although clearly you think your "opinion" is just as valid and worthy as anyone else's, regardless of whether or not you write truthful statements.

Do you know that that it? That's basically online entitlement.

Once again we have more regulations from the people that are afraid that somehow, somewhere, someone might be having a good time! California has all but killed the logging industry in the state and we have larger forest fires than ever before.

I wonder if they keep any statistics on how much pollution is caused by the millions and millions of acres of trees that burn in wildfires every year? By comparison, the fires of people who want to use a fireplace or an outdoor fire pit occasionally are a drop in the bucket.

This is just another set of rules to limit personal freedom and generate income for the ever expanding state. I wonder if they will tell people they need to stop dancing because it will trigger earthquakes?

If they are really worried about people with respiratory problems, then why do they allow and even encourage people and developers to plant trees and plants with sky high pollen production? One would almost think that they are in bed with the pharmaceutical companies that produce antihistamines! There are many varieties of plants and trees that produce low pollen counts and would help those of us with severe pollen allergies, but I don't see any legislation about that.

My ancestors whom were American Indians used fire extensively and yet they seemed to manage not to destroy the environment.

Do I think people should go out of their way to pollute? Absolutely not! But I also think that the same people that want to ban burning wood and even clean burning pressed logs are the same hypocrites that don't think twice about flying on their own private jets or being driven around in their taxpayer paid limousines.

It's not about the environment, it's about the money.



Jim Neal
Old Mountain View

"This is just another set of rules to limit personal freedom and generate income for the ever expanding state."

Like speed laws. My Chumash ancestors seemed to manage just fine without speed laws. Damnit, how can I live free if I have to accommodate the laws of the land, or other people for that matter?!

"During the Winter Spare the Air season, which starts today and ends on Feb. 28, residents are prohibited from burning wood, manufactured fire logs and any other solid fuel both indoors and outdoors when a Spare the Air Alert has been issued, according to the air district.
According to the new requirements, anyone whose sole source of heat is a wood-burning device must use a U.S. Environmental Protection Agency-certified or pellet-fueled device that is registered with the air district to qualify for an exemption "

Qualifying and GRANTING an exemption are two different things. You may WANT to use such an EPA certified wood stove but you may not be legally able to do it in the SFBA, especially when a " Spare the Air " Alert has been issued. No BBQs, open pit fires or campfires in the SFBA are allowed on " Spare the Air Days? Talk about limiting your choices! Next is probably an EPA mandated catalytic converter to limit exposure to limit fart emissions in elevators...

As agriculturalists we have been told when we can and can't burn for decades and have managed to deal with it quite well. Most of us are on the right side of the political spectrum which is likely why we haven't had to whine about it like the lefties are now complaining about.

@Yah - Remind me again how banning the burning of clean (i.e. non polluting logs) is bad for the environment again? Are you also in favor of the soda taxes because people can't be trusted to know what is good for them or how much they should buy? How about banning all drinks over 32oz? Eliminating salt at all restaurants? Just because politicians make laws does not mean that they are all good ones.

Speed laws are (ostensibly) designed to save lives based on studies. How many people have been killed by fireplaces or fire pits? I bet not as many as have drowned in swimming pools. Should we ban those?

While some laws are necessary, I don't see why every aspect of one's life has to be subjected to regulations. What is the use of owning property if you have ZERO choices in how you can use and enjoy it?


Jim Neal
Old Mountain View

"Clean burning logs" are hoax. Natural gas firelogs produce some air pollution, but not too bad. Wax and sawdust logs (Duraflame, etc) produce a lot more air pollution than natural gas. They are not as bad as solid wood, but still significant enough to be dangerous on days when air pollution is already soaring. Fireplace use is not banned every day, just on days when the air pollution levels are already dangerous.

@READER

Aren't opinions like............... Everybody has one! And that's just what I wrote, MY OPINION. Yep I am entitled to say it, write it or do whatever I want to with it. Last I heard we live in America and thankfully we are allowed to do so. Nowhere did I state the “internet was just about me”. I have no idea where that one even came from. Please don’t bother to respond because this string and you trying to sound intelligent are boring me so I’m out.....

Stay warm however your sweet little heart desires.

Thank you!

Yet another clueless string of self-righteous, defiant objections to restrictions that are only designed to protect (you and) your neighbors. From what? Well exposure to your nasty smoke, even if you don't care.

Exactly what government revenue is generated by clean air concerns, please? It probably costs more to issue a citation than is collected. Conspiracy theories are fun but not often founded on any facts.

Speaking of cognitive difficulties, it would seem to be um, reasonable, to read an article before launching a tirade.

So who cares what you do, eat, or think, until it becomes an unreasonable intrusion on your neighbors? NO ONE CARES! (Especially about those of you who seem to relish taking a defiant stance whenever possible to act out the crusty pioneer mentality.) But how dare you declare that this is an infringement on you, when you are creating a harmful, unpleasant problem? Then everyone cares - you are the problem, not the people who object to suffering from your self-entitled behavior.

Generating smokey smog during an atmospheric inversion in your own neighborhood is a far cry from comparable to a forest fire in a remote place. Yeah, First Peoples probably had no such problems. Of course, their population density was tiny compared to the present day in this region.

Sarcastically telling people who don't want to breathe your crap out of the common air to get themselves out to the countryside is fallacious. The point is that if you need to spread out your mess, you should get yourself out of town where no one cares much. Here, you are in the wrong. You 'll find plenty of like-minded rural folks who maintain their public nuisance lifestyles to their hearts' content out in the boonies where wood smoke (or modern, high efficiency pellet stoves, etc.) is readily diffused and is still acceptable.

Staying warm? What, you have icicles hanging from your eaves in Mountain View?? You have not done the math or get free firewood if you think heating a house with a fireplace is cheaper than even electric heating.

All the badass posturing does is reveal a belligerent and stupid person whose reacts like a jerk when he gets called out for being ... a jerk.

"I wonder if they keep any statistics on how much pollution is caused by the millions and millions of acres of trees that burn in wildfires every year?"

Jim, millions and millions of acres of trees are not burning in densely populated urban areas. Weird that someone has to tell you that.

"My ancestors whom were American Indians used fire extensively and yet they seemed to manage not to destroy the environment. "

Jim, there are more people in the bay area than there was in all of North America then. And the proper term is "Native Americans". Your ancestors are not from India.

I find it highly offensive that someone thinks that they can tell someone else the "proper term" for their own people. My grandmother called herself an Indian, her parents called themselves Indians and I call myself that. I used American Indian to clarify that I am not from India.

Also, just because the millions of acres are not burning in densely populated areas does not mean that the smoke does not reach them. I remember a few years ago that the Bay Area was covered in smoke from a wildfire that was burning hundreds of miles away. The wind can carry smoke from wildfires over a thousand miles. Weird that someone has to tell you that.


Jim Neal
Old Mountain View

It's really telling how the generation gap dictates whether you think of this as an overreach of government telling you what you can't do, or an obvious call to not pollute the air that we all breathe beyond what we already do day to day.