"Support the open and civil exchange of views"

Sometimes you need to weed out the posters uninterested in being civil. Unfortunate, but that has been a fact of life on internet based message boards forever.

By 54 posts, I think most everyone has had their say. The Voice has a looong history of locking up threads for many various reasons. Sometimes posters get rude and out of hand, sometimes the topic may be sensitive, esp if it involved a minor. Sometimes they just get old and ridiculous. Whatever the reason, after 54 posts I think its fair to, not lock it up, but make it for registered visitors only. If the people have that much passion, they can register and continue to freely voice their opinion. If the site is that important to you, don't just "Take", give back by registering.

The point is, the discussion should be free from registration restrictions, just like every other thread is free from restrictions unless/until one has reached their limit of "free" online access.

If you look back through various important community discussions, BRT discussions for a recent example, you wil find dozens and dozens of comments on threads, without the threads being restricted.

Incidentally, I am a paid subscriber, I don't choose to register to post.

Maybe you should start your own independent forum? Bandwidth is really cheap these days. Then you can moderate it how see fit. There are plenty of forums where anarchy reigns.

I question why this one particular thread was restricted after just four days and 54 comments on the subject, when as I also noted above there have been very recent discussions - BRT dedicated lane discussion comes to mind - that had dozens and dozens of comments (some of them ridiculous and ill-mannered,btw) yet that discussion was left open for all to participate, sans any registration requirement?

The capriciousness of the restriction of that particular thread, at that particular time certainly Gives the appearance that someone wanted to stifle that discussion.

And, not that it's really any of your business, but since you suggested I go out a start my own, independent, forum...

I have had two independent forums for over 14 years now. I pay to keep them ad free, and I pay to allow other people to image host. The format requires registration, but I don't care if people register and post using multiple users names, nor do I censor comments (other than obvious spam and/or porn). Other than the spammers and porn posters, I have never banned a user. I allow people the freedom to edit their comments as they see fit, and they are free to say whatever they want. Some people don't care for that much freedom...it seems to make them uncomfortable, but I think the longevity of the forums speaks for itself.

Sounds like somebody got miffed that they couldn't get the last word in.
Jeeze, let it go, it happens near daily around here. Nothing special about this topic. Register. This is not some "free for you all the time website". It's owned by people who need to make money. Quit taking and give back. Register and speak your mind. It's not rocket science!

@whambulamce, if you are referring to me, you're off the mark. I was following the discussion, yes, but not engaged in any of the back and forth of the discussion.

My interest is purely in discovering why The Voice decided to take an action on that one particular discussion at that particular time, which effectively stifled the conversation, when it has not done so with similar threads with dozens and dozens of comments in the very recent past?

And, for you to imply that simply registering to post helps The Voice make money...well, I believe that is incorrect. ANYONE can register to post, for FREE...so why make it a requirement on only ONE particular thread and only after it has been generating spirited discussion?

I'll say it again; I have supported The Voice - AS A PAID SUSCRIBER - for years. I also choose NOT to register to post...so maybe you should give the "quit taking and give back" shtick a rest.

My point about the previous thread being restricted isn't about me at all, it's about what appears to be a newspapers attempt stifle discussion on a very important topic to the community. Some people will remain silent when they perceive barriers have been put in place that suddenly hinder discussion, barriers that were not there just 24 hours ago...and barriers that have nothing to do with generating revenue. The Voice put those barriers in place with not a word of explanation, and as expected, the conversation has effectively died. That's shameful.

Nothing more to say about this. Feel free to snivel on and on about it though.

The condescending comments directed towards me aren't surprising, but they are telling.

At the very least The Voice should explain why they decided to make ONLY THAT ONE PARTICULAR THREAD for registered users only. A simple explanation might go a long way towards removing any appearance that The Voice was improperly trying to stifle an important community conversation which was taking place on that thread, during the height of a signature gathering effort to get a defecto rent control initiative on the November ballot.


If it walks like a duck.....

"Inquiring Minds" must be very new to these forums. All the Embarcadero-Media newspaper websites, including the Voice, have long followed the practice of sometimes restricting comments to registered users, depending on the subject matter, or the tone of comments to date. It happened also in several other very recent articles here, and it happens routinely, week after week. Sometimes the article is set that way even before any comments appear. All well within posted policies on the website that go further, even: posted content is subject to deletion, if judged inappropriate in the discretion of staff.

Besides all of that, second comment above already explained the escape clause which is really beyond controvery (even if for some reason "Inquiring Minds" doesn't personally like it): "If the people have that much passion, they can register and continue to freely voice their opinion." Registration itself costs nothing (it's not the same as subscription), it does not itself limit in any way the free expression of views, it only limits people from expressing them behind pseudonyms-- which is exactly where most of the comments appear that end up being deleted!!!!!

Landlords are welcome to use a fictitious names in signing up to sign in. Comments can always be traced if necessary. But signing in does increase civility and veracity.

There's a relevant thread here: Web Link where you can see how discussion about the lack of gun control and the local businesses who profit from this. A certain individual immediately attacks, threatens and flags the debate as offensive and then posts are deleted and the arms merchants win.

Censorship is a serious problem. Democracies need forums for free discourse. Hopefully The Voice will keep this in mind.

The problem with the Voice is that they are acting as an activist with an political agenda while pretending to put up a front to the public as a news organization so that they can influence the community's
behavior-thought-voting habit on issues.

The Voice does not state any type of conflicts that they have when writing any stories, and on more than one occasion I have noticed that they have the moderators posing as community residents and posting with fake names, trying to push their agenda and when most of the post do not go their way, they lock the lock.

Here is proof that they do this. On this one thread, a poster by the name of Angels S., writes 7 posts supporting rent control. When he did not get support from other posters, he writes

" I'm closing this tab before I see another comment!"

And sure enough, the thread is immediately locked.

Here is the link. Web Link

Posted by Angel S.
a resident of Another Mountain View Neighborhood
on Mar 20, 2016 at 7:19 pm
I'm closing this tab before I see another comment!


I would like to see an audit of all the people at the Voice who have access to the website and the threads, and audit the account as to who is posting and under what names. Why, yes it is a private forum, then it should be stated that they are not a News organization but a political group. This is what the community needs to know and understand.

Where do the editors and publishers and reporters live? What city?


Another thing that is fishy, I have had to create 4 new email accounts because as soon as I post something on this site, my account gets hit with spammers and I lose my account. Including one that I just set up today.

TFH

The Voice sure seems to be tolerating you and your voice on this thread. With each post you prove yourself wrong about them silencing voices. Toughen up snowflake.

This is a PRIVATELY owned website and they can do whatever they want. (Read that part again and let it sink in) You are in no position to demand they do anything. When you start your own website, YOU can do whatever YOU want, including laughing at anyone who demands YOU audit your own website in order to suit their demands.

It is very understandable that the staff from the Voice, and it's allies will do anything to protect this system that is in place for them to further their agenda and to discredit every one else who does not follow their view.

Since you are now saying to other's that they should start their on web site, which is a really good idea as the city resident's do need a place where they can get honest information, then why do you not take this same approach and tell the Mountain View Tenants Coalition to "get their own apartment house"? They can live there as well.

@Reader,

For my own edification, are you speaking on behalf of either Embarcadero Media or The Mountain View Voice, or as a private citizen?


As I stated previously, I understand full well the difference between being a subscriber and simply registering to post. I have also noticed that there are occasions where the comments section is set for registered users only when an article is posted, and occasionally comments have simply been closed when an article has been posted.


Again, it's the timing of The Voice deciding to make ONLY THAT ONE PARTICULAR THREAD (recently) for registered users only - sans any type of explanation - which tends towards the appearance that The Voice was improperly trying to stifle an important community conversation which was taking place on that thread, during the height of a signature gathering effort to get a defecto rent control initiative on the November ballot.

Your response = register. However, the chilling effect registration has on conversation - as noted by the dearth of conversation on that thread presently - has effectively ended the discussion.

Job well done.

Personally, it's no skin off my back...it's the Voice's reputation. Fall back on TOU and what not all you want, but when things don't pass the sniff test...the whole house begins to reek.

P.S. Look at the personal attacks I have been subjected to for simply standing my ground on this subject. I have not been rude or condescending, but factual and polite...yet with the exception of you and perhaps one other commenter, the replies to me have been pretty obnoxious ...in an effort to shut me up, I suppose. Whatever.

Paranoia will destroy ya.
It's all in your mind. You have imagined a wonderful conspiracy, enjoy it, but don't try to drag us into the conversation with those "voices" in your head.

"This is a privately owned website and they can do whatever they want"

The problem with that statement is, that apartment owners are also "privately owned" and yet you have people from the Voice actively engaged in this process of getting rent control into our city there by taking their rights away.

They have been dishonest about the coverage they have done, and that includes moderators on this site posting comments to further the agenda.

They need to state, as a start, what cities do all involved with the Voice live in.

Web Link

This was locked without explanation after a lot of comments came in within the first hours. Then they just locked it u[p.
What does it meeeean????

I' m sorry, was the thread you referenced a discussion revolving around signature gathering for a controversial rent control ballot initiative that has a hard deadline approaching quickly? If not, then it's not relevant to what the issue being discussed here and now is...but, thanks for playing.

BTW, you might want to save your sarcasm for someone who cares.

So many people working against us...everyone is against us. Why isn't this thread locked? Because the tin foil is totally working that's why!
I think I'll spend all my time and efforts whining about my imagined conspiracy, thus, accomplishing nothing.

I don't know if Inquiring has a legitimate concern or not but I truly don't understand all the snarky comments aimed against him/her. In fact, those snarky comments actually make me want to pursue Inquiring minds comments in more depth as perhaps he/she has indeed poked a hornets nest.

I'd like to quickly clear up a couple of misconceptions in this thread.

1. Voice staff members are not allowed to comment anonymously on Town Square threads. If an editor or reporter makes a comment, it will be under his or her own name.

2. It is against our policy for any member of the newsroom staff to participate in political or advocacy groups in areas we cover. Daniel DeBolt has not been employed by the Voice for over a year. He recently has taken a volunteer position with the Tenants' Coalition, which, as private citizen, he is free to do.

@Andrea Grommet,

I am glad that you have posted here to address the community's concern.

However, your non answers to questions posted here have not been answered.

Will you commit to total transparency from your organization?

Will you state what city all involved with the paper, live in?

Do you have an employee named Angel S. and is it appropriate that he locks a thread if the posts do not go his way? Will you also have a rule that states any employee posting on the web site will state that he is an employee of the paper?

Why has there been no coverage from the Voice regarding what is needed and costs from running an apartment business? The paper has been extremely biased and one sided. Your paper is pro rent control.

Your paper has asked council to make more laws so elections can be more transparent, will your paper do the same? Or will the Voice stay out of politics and stop endorsing candidates and measures?

Will you be open and state any conflicts of interest in stories?

Why has there been no stories as to who these people are calling themselves the Mountain View Tenants Coalition, and where are they getting the money from. You would do this if this group was spending money against one of the papers candidates that got endorsed from you.

These are just some inconsistencies from your paper. Since you are very involved with the political scene in our city, it is important for transparency that you start to address these issue's.

First, clarifying my earlier comment above: Registration doesn't even require real names, many regular commenters use pseudonyms. All that registration fundamentally impedes is totally anonymous drive-by comments, and it is THOSE that often trigger editorial intervention, restricting threads, etc. Naturally, in threads containing many comments of that kind (as in the case referenced here), registration has a "chilling" effect -- on those commenters! (For all we really know, it was just one person using multiple screen names, contrary to Terms Of Use; in fact, I recall some later comments in the thread in question, around May 30 (Memorial Day), ackowledging multiple screen names, then later disappearing, along with other abusive comments, at the same time the thread went registered-only.) All this, incidentally, is why registered-comments-only is the standard of practice on so many "media" websites today, virtually all of them I see except this one.)

Second, the following claim by "Inquiring Minds" is wrong, as I mentioned already, and obviously so, as I'll explain: "The Voice deciding to make ONLY THAT ONE PARTICULAR THREAD (recently) for registered users only" Several contemporaneous Voice stories went to registered-comments-only earlier this week (including the Achievement-Gap story, the Sacred-Cows story, the Bernie-Sanders-Coming-Wednesday story, the Rent-Control story cited here, probably others). Most of them accumulated comments over the long Memorial-Day weekend; then apparently, editorial supervision resumed with business hours. Two other stories I was reading went registered-comments-only almost *simultaneously* with this one. Anyone who bothers to check can find countless cases stored on this website of stories that went registered-comments-only -- so I find the claim I quoted above unfathomable.

Third, I'm just another reader of this site, with no connection to Embarcadero Media, so could hardly be speaking "on behalf of" them! (And you wonder why this post is getting ribbed with quips abput paranoia and tinfoil hats??)

If anyone is perceiving any bias by journalists, it's likely because most journalists are quite poor, because we as consumers won't pay for news anymore. Even though quality news is critical to our democracy and collective well being.

Journalists should cover stories truthfully, but that does not strip them of their humanity. Nor does truthful coverage mean that all issues are equally 50/50.

I appreciate everything MV Voice staff does to try to cover local news, do you think one or two writers like having to write every story? When the MV Voice has errors, I'm more likely to believe it's more often do to being short staffed, than intentional deception.

@ a MV resident,


What the heck are you talking about?

Your are now claiming that journalist are poor?
So that gives them the right to slam landlords? And to push for new laws that will put many landlords out of business in the next recession!

What kind of person would even try to justify such actions?

Journalist are supposed to cover both sides of a story and report that to the public. Doing what you say is O.K means that they are not reporting the news but making it.

If they can not leave their Prejudice's at home,
they are no longer journalist but instead a activist and they should not be working for any organization that claims to be a news organization.

The longer I live in Mountain View the more it changers and not for the better. So I'm not surprise The Voice has too. Freedom of speech is under attack the press isn't any better than this town now refer to as Google land.
When we can be censored by a small town local paper. We are in trouble.