Nice article providing all of the student comments. Mr. Seitelman's firing sounds like a real loss for the school - and maybe my son who is enrolling in Stagecraft for next year.

I would really like to see an article that provides the board discussion of why they would let go a beloved teacher who had accomplished so much in a short time. If there was no reason other than to avoid giving him tenure, I would be very disappointed.

I don't know the merits of this decision not to rehire but the absence of any credible evidence by the district/school officials reflects very poorly on them. Aren't they supposed to be the role models for our youth? If so, this apparently "secret" decision doesn't gibe with what we call democracy in this forlorn nation.

I don't know the merits of this decision not to rehire but the absence of any credible evidence by the district/school officials reflects very poorly on them. Aren't they supposed to be the role models for our youth? If so, this apparently "secret" decision doesn't gibe with what we call democracy in this forlorn nation.

why does the district not give the reasons
is it financial --does tenure come with extra expenditures?
i think mr s should sue

"When asked why Seitelman was tapped to leave, Mountain View High School Principal Dave Grissom declined to comment. "

Hmm, very interesting!! Closed door sessions.

Maybe they can't afford his pension, or could it be political reasons, not bending over for the liberal Union masters?

Well if he is liked so much, he will probably have no problems getting a different job in a different school.

There could be a very good reason for the Board's decision. The school can not publicly disclose personel matters.
The "no comment" the the Principal means that he is not at liberty to discuss the matter.
Without knowing anything specific about the teacher, I suspect there was a very good reason for the decision.

Many studies show that performing arts programs in schools build in children the same skills i.e. self-confidence, teamwork, cooperation etc as sports programs do. Without the inherent dangers so often found in athletic endeavors, and for less monies too.

The lack of transparency in answer to the public outcry supporting this teacher simply does not stand. Hiding behind procedure is nonsense when what is needed is wisdom and the best interests fo these youngsters.

Red tape and some anonymous and illusory "greater good" must be rejected.

This is a personnel matter and can't be made public unless both sides agree. Over 90 percent of HS teachers get tenure. To dent tenure is very rare and means there was something severely wrong with the teacher

To HS teacher: To say that there was something severely wrong with this teacher is to disregard the voice of all the students and parents that came out to support him. The only plausible explanation (in my mind) for this is an administration, and perhaps even teaching staff, that is cowardly when confronted with change. Mr. Seitelman is the only teacher I have encountered at MVHS who is vocal about what is right for the students versus what is easy/status quo for the teachers. Having someone vocalize that MAYBE the way we are structuring our academia at MVHS could use some improvement (and it definitely can) is perhaps annoying and too "new wave" for some teachers. Of course, this is only speculation mixed with my understanding of the staff's perception of this issue. But if this is the case, I strongly believe the students' voices need to be heard, and that teachers/admin who have an issue with Mr. Seitelman's progressive attitude need to get over their petty, archaically steadfast ways and realize that if the students say the want/need this, then that is probably what the school needs.

This case involves a new principal with his own agenda, an exiting Superintendent with no interest in the issue and a school board who saw no reason to rock the boat. The problem is the process. There is no review process, no true option for public comment, no, recourse.

Mr. Seitelman was very successful in creating a strong, secure place for his students, but he must have made someone unhappy with his actions. We will never know.

The comments from students who felt isolated and depressed and even considered suicide are critical. I am glad these students found a safe place and help from this teacher and through these classes. If this resource is going away, I hope the District and the school are attentive to these needs.

I'm incredibly humbled to be part of a community of students that will drop everything they're doing to bring precedent to a transformative teacher that has made a life-long impact on his students and program. I honestly believe there is not enough information to formalize a "right" or "wrong" opinion on this issue; specifically, due to the fact that the MVLA School Board can't disclose any information regarding the reasoning behind the "letting-go". Is it legitimate or not? We have no way of truly knowing, but are turing to speculation and letting our emotions control the situation, which is absolutely necessary as long as positive change happens :D
Mr. Seitelman was and will be a uniquely impactful teacher, but I would like to see one tangible result from this event. Simply, I would like our school community, faculty, and administration, and town, to take into deeper consideration the voices of students. We are so greatly impacted by the pressures of today's academic system, specifically in the Silicon Valley area. MVHS could use a systematic restructuring, which only can be done with the help of students. Some of our teachers are wonderfully inspiring, while others are not. Principals have been enthusiastic and active participants in the community- and some has not. What we should take away from this controversial event is simply a desire to build a support-system around students and for students, taking pressing issues such as stress and well-being first and foremost into consideration. Ultimately, we want are students happy and healthy, right?

I certainly think this is a valuable lesson for those young people about the subversion of justice in the guise of democracy. Seitelman undoubtedly got himself in trouble by being a real teacher, something sure to rock the boat badly at any typical American high school. Certainly, all that passion from the students suggests he's an exceptional human being and thus the victim in this whole affair.

Mr. Seitelman, care to comment? Unless the *public* school officials denying tenure to a *public* educator care to be transparent about what transpired?

A lot of unanswered questions that need to be answered.

Thank you very much for this article. I was the student who spoke up about suicide. I'm a boy! But it doesn't matter, this is a great piece anyway and it really captures the frustration of the entire community right now.

The comments by HS students show compete ignorance of the process. The tenure review is performed by staff and teachers. It is a careful and thorough process. While student input is important, it will never be a deciding factor. A teacher has to show he is willing to work and get along with colleagues and the administration. A smart teacher knows this and puts his best show on for two years. For higher Ed its 6 years. So if a HS teacher can't get his act together for 2 years, he has only
himself to blame. As I noted above, almost every teacher gets tenure. . To not receive tenure, there must have been flags raised.

Years ago a math teacher was denied tenure that was very popular with the students. I was aware of other information that was not madeublic and agreed with the adm with the decision

Maybe there was some reason why they didn't want to sign this guy up for life. That's what you're talking about when someone gets tenure. The fault lies with the tenure policy. In what area of the private economy could you get, essentially, a job for life after a two year tryout? If the Board had some flexibility regarding tenure decision, Mr Seitelman might still be there. What the students think Mr Seitelman is a point of view amongst many, not the only one.

In school, I rarely share my real opinions. I've done so once recently; challenging the teacher over whether I liked a book or not. The teacher's reaction was almost instant. She immediately shut me down, by cutting me off when I was explaining why I found the book we were reading to be a bit tedious and hard to follow. I was merely sharing my initial thoughts on this book, yet my teacher intervened and asked the entire class, "Does anyone else think otherwise?" to which the question was met with silence. My teacher then started gushing about why this book is so good in this almost condescending tone, as if I'm not smart enough to understand its true significance and meaning, simply because I had a negative first impression of it. I truly never get to share my real opinions, which is quite interesting because we live in a country famous for its fight for democracy.

I thought school was a place where we can come to learn and grow through discussion and maintain an open, growth mindset. When you have a teacher who goes above and beyond what the job outline dictates, who works tirelessly to strive for a more cohesive community, who somehow manages to get hundreds of students to make time out of their hectic schedules with loads of AP/honors classes, sports, and extracurriculars to support him and his teaching style, I think that is a testament to the kind of character Mr. Seitelman is. I personally never had him, but to see the entire Mountain View community get so passionate about one teacher raises more flags than not getting tenure. The teacher I described who discouraged contradicting ideas has tenure. She was the one who also taught us the concept of growth mindsets, yet she,herself doesn't have one, and simply adheres to conventional, accepted ways of thought.

We may or may not be completely educated on how the tenure system works, but from firsthand experience I can confidently say that I've had my fair share OF AMAZING teachers and quite frankly, horrible teachers. I've had teachers who don't even know what they're talking about. I ask a question, and they just dismiss it if they don't know it. If the tenure selection process is so meticulous, then why are there teachers who aren't meant to teach still teaching? As students, it is our right to learn, grow, make mistakes, and challenge ideas. How are we supposed to do so in this kind of environment that completely shuts down discussion over conflicting ideas?

To be fair, I've grown to like the book as we read it, but I just don't think it is right for a teacher to completely dismiss a student's thoughts as wrong if they don't align with the teacher's. We are being taught to conform with accepted, traditional ideas. We live in a dynamic era where opinions and ideas shift and sway sporadically, and teachers and school admin need to understand that. I truly love school, but not being able to share my actual thoughts without being reprimanded hinders our growth and curbs our hunger for more knowledge. This got a bit long, but I've seen so much coverage on this that I just wanted to share my thoughts.

"We live in a dynamic era where opinions and ideas shift and sway sporadically, and teachers and school admin need to understand that."

You're going to be disappointed if you go to college.

Once again, the incompetent teachers have worked with the administration to get rid of someone that made them look bad. This happens all the time. Some bright, enthusiastic new teacher wants to work harder than the tenured, old clock-punchers and is punished for it.

30-some hour workweeks, summers off, 100pct job stability...don't rock the boat!

Teachers and students might expect that ALL teachers work more effectively once they see what is possible. GASP!

Thank you teachers, administrators and an out-of-control school board for implementing project "RACE TO THE BOTTOM". Other countries competing with ours appreciate it.

Thank you Board.
In today's education model you only have two years to evaluate a teacher before permanent status is granted. No other occupation allows this. You have asked your administrators to be mindful that you expect excellence and short of that, to non reelect. Your Principals must make hiring decisions and if those decisions don't work self report that they made a hiring error and must suggest a non reelect. No Pricipal wants to do that. Additionally, no Prinicipal would make a decision to non reelect if the teacher meets the Excellence Requirement.
The two people most discussed in this report are Superintendent Groves and Prinicipal Grissom. Both had excellent records at previous districts and were considered excellent administrators before being hired by the district. That did not change overnight. They were both considered thoughtful and successful.
A red flag is the teacher has not landed a permanent position in at least two jobs.
Thank you for setting a high bar and sticking too it by supporting the observations of your administrator, a trained and fully qualified evaluator.
Reform is hard, but Mountain View HS will be better by this decision and the Parents were heard, which makes this decision even harder, but still necessary. In the end Board work is not easy, but you certainly followed through on your challenge to put kids first and expecting excellence. I hold you in high regard

I find it difficult to believe that the entire meeting Monday was for naught. It at least appears to an 'outsider' looking in that the board sat and nodded and said 'no thanks' at the end. And just ignored everything they heard.

I hope by some miracle Mr. Seitleman will return next year. He has certainly 'rev'ed up' the students in both drama and English. That type of devotion is hard to find, and VERY difficult to replace.

For all of you who speculate with reasons, or assumptions. Who are so easy to disregard others "guesses" as to why? I have my own and it holds as much merit as yours, the students Who support mr. Sietelman ...I'm not sure you are familiar with them, I am enough to make my assumption, smoke pot, are for the most part lazy students and are sticking up for this man because of a cool factor. Remember these are children and there opinions , may be strong and with the backing of brainwashed parents who know only what the kids say seem bolder. If he was as good as they say he is don't worry! He will have no problem finding another job. Don't read to much into this, again these are kids...not adults, with kid opinions. Some of these kids don't like macaroni and cheese...who cares!

Apparently YOU care Get a grip. You wrote a nice paragraph espousing your frustration. Something I personally don't care about myself. Not from some childless guy sitting behind a computer running down kids he has ZERO knowledge about. Kids who are getting involved and not afraid to voice their opinions.

Those kids have something you will never have: The guts to stand up in front of everyone and state their opinion.

At the end of the day, they are still just kids trying to voice there opinions about adult issues, to them I say ::::ssssshhhhhh::::

IN reality, this is a no win situation for public input whether by students or parents. Because of confidentiality, the public doesn't know the specific reasons for the denial of tenure and cant address those reasons. Just saying the teacher is a good and nice is not going to cut it with the board

No explanation for his dismissal was required by law, and any statement would expose the school district to expensive lawsuits --- paid by robbing our schools from already gross underfunding by our "friends" in Sacramento.

People here don't understand CA labor law. The teacher in question was on probationary status and, as such, could be dismissed for any reason at any time without legal recourse. For whatever reason they chose, the school district decided in a UNANIMOUS decision not to continue his employment with the school district. He was not fired. His contract was not renewed without comment. That a correct legal decision.

Your can't blame the school district for this silence upon his dismissal. They had to stay silent because of CA labor law.

As far as I can tell from the reporting, no teachers or department heads spoke up for the non re-elected teacher. With their guaranteed tenure and strong union representation, I would posit it wasn't from the fear of retaliation.

Also, those above who have cited CA labor law and the CA Education code as the rational for why no reasons for the non re-election were given are absolutely correct and that would be true in private industry as well. Personnel issues can't be discussed in public.

你好吗 我很好 你笨蛋 我聪明 Seitelman老师笨蛋 他不做他的功课

Julie Yick, teacher and colleague of Seitelman, said, “I believe that Rob Seitelman embodies what Mountain View High School is all about.”
Web Link

TEACHER DID STAND UP FOR SEITELMAN WE THE PEOPLE

Former insider has no credibility

"Also, those above who have cited CA labor law and the CA Education code as the rational for why no reasons for the non re-election were given are absolutely correct and that would be true in private industry as well. Personnel issues can't be discussed in public. "

You are completely incorrect. The school district is perfectly free by law to disclose the reasons for their firing/fail-to-hire decision. They only have to allow time for an appeal hearing to happen or be declined by the teacher. That is in the code (44949.A(2)).

Obviously, this failure to disclose can only be for one of two reasons:

1) The reasons are sincere and truthful, but would embarrass the school district. For example, if some senior teachers and administrators in the school were afraid that this teacher's high talent would raise the bar for the rest of them. The existing teachers hated that and complained. Perhaps even threatened a slowdown. Rather than tick off the "in-crowd", they just threw the talented newbie off the train.

2) The reasons are based on incorrect facts (read: lies) or on issues that are specifically prohibited by law. Disclosing these reasons would subject the district to a defamation lawsuit or other penalties. Again, there is no law prohibiting the disclosure, but if the reasons are bad, then there would be consequences.

California Code for educators:
Web Link

Well if the govt didn't waste money like there was no tomorrow, then maybe this teacher could still have a job? If money was the issue.

Here is an article about how CA wastes money. It's a shocker.

Web Link

MVLA is one of the best funded districts in the state, well above adjacent districts which receive state funding. Vast majority of MVLA funds are local property taxes, so I'm not sure how a Jarvis article applies. MVLA teacher salaries are among the highest relative to other school districts in Silicon Valley. They are not eliminating the position to save money. The district will need to replace this teacher, and maybe find someone they are comfortable conferring permanent status on.

Tenure which was meant as a way to protect university educators is now abused by elementary and high school teachers to use their platform to spew their crap while shutting down student and parent opinion. In order to be a teacher today you have to yield to the ideas and opinions of the majority or the other teachers will witch hunt you out of a job. If it isn't done by the teachers, the PTA will take care of it. My fellow liberals shut down freedom of speech and thought with huge riteous smiles on their faces that turn my stomach. They see nothing wrong with their actions, but if the power were to shift in another direction in which they were the target because of their views they would cry injustice. There is no room in the valley for divergent or alternative views. Not at school, not at BBQs not anywhere. Tow the line or be maligned.

I agree with previous posters that this was probably about a good teacher setting the bar too high. I have seen this happen many times. It's too bad. The tenured, unioned teachers abuse their power. Good on the students for showing up and taking a stand.

How could he be "setting the bar too high" as the only teacher in the entire school who teaches Acting and Stagecraft classes?

Setting the bar has nothing to do with the subject taught. It is when a teacher goes above and beyond with effort and hours worked.

All the performing arts teachers (choir, dance, instrumental music) put in a huge number of hours beyond the school weekday, with rehearsals, performances, competitions, fundraising, tours, uniform fitting, meeting with parent volunteers, etc

So I'm still not clear how a drama teacher would be going above and beyond with effort and hours worked and how that would alienate other staff.

Did the administration give Mr. Seitelman a reason? This persistent lack of transparency by school boards and administrators results in endless speculation, frustration, alienation and anger from parents and students. A whole bunch of people are pissed off at Barry Groves, Dave Grissom, Craig Goldman, and the MVWSD trustees and their only reply is "I stand by my decision and I can't say anything more."

Can you imagine if teachers did that? "You're getting an F in my class and that's all I'm going to say."