Great, now we're entertaining war criminals.

I'm all in favor of an independent Jewish state: they should try it sometime. As it is, they live off the American taxpayer's dime. We've given (yes, GIVEN) Israel three times the cost of the Apollo moon mission. We're subsidizing their socialized medical system while the poor here are dying of infected teeth and other preventable diseases. Additionally, this racist gasbag wants us to go to war with Iran over nonexistent nuclear weapons while Israel continues to lie about its own nuclear arsenal.

Check out the Symington Amendment of 1974. Every dime we've given to Israel since then is illegal, and we should demand it back.

So now we are supporters of apartheid? My, how our country has evolved :-/

Be careful with the comments before some cries anti-semitism

Old Ben you seem to have a good handle on the amount of money that we have sent to Israel. Which makes it all the more alarming that you neglect to mention how much money we have given to the Palestinians. It may not seem as much because Hamas and Arafat's old crew siphoned off 100s of millions of dollars in aide that was and is supposed to go to their people. Your kind does the same thing when talking about Israeli violence against Palestinians. You always leave out the violence committed against Israel. Or when you do acknowledge it you rationalize and minimalize it.

I mean Arafat alone diverted a billion dollars. Then again why would anyone on the "arab" side REALLY want Israel and the Palestinians to get along? Between stealing the aide money and getting a ready made group of fanatics to carry out terrorist plots around the world- Iran, Syria would lose willing terrorist. And the leadership in Hamas would lose their lives of luxury.

In short, Anti Israeli folks all seem to suffer from the same odd amnesia.

Seriously Old Ben, can you explain why the leadership of Hamas is so wealthy when they own no industry, produce no goods, provide nothing of worth? Why is it that the Palestinian leadership has always ripped their own people off yet people like you ignore it and point at Israel? You wouldn't happen to have alternate motives now would you? Nooo of course not you want peace lol.

The fact of the matter is if people were to take in the entire history and FACTS of the Israeli/Palestinian struggle instead of just parroting the talking points of Iran and other anti Israel groups, the discussion would be much less volatile. If truth and peace were the basis of negotiations this would have been over a long time ago and children wouldn't be suffering and dressing up like suicide bombers. How sick is a group of people that dress their own children up as suicide bombers? What parent could do that?

I do feel for the Palestinians, they are used by Iran and other anti Israeli factions (who BTW tend to like to kill Americans too) they are ripped off by their own leadership and they suffer for it. Ultimately everywhere you go in the world Islamic extremists and their idiot left wing comrades have a million excuses for what they do. And Palestinian struggle is just the local excuse. In Asia they have other excuses.

Same story- steal from the people- blame the Israelis.

So John Kaye, apparently you are incapable of taking your own advice. If you were
to " take in the entire history and FACTS of the Israeli/Palestinian struggle" you would have to admit that prior to 1949 Palenstine had belonged to the Palenstinians for thousands of years and that it was the U.S. That created Israel at that time. The Palestinians have been murdered and continually encroached upon by Israel since.
..... And those Palestinian children/parents you criticize for demonstrating their grief- you seem to discount the countless lives of children murdered by Israel's endless war.

jesse: Can you tell me how it "belonged" to the Palestinians? Was there ever an independent Palestinian state in history? Who was its leader? When did it exist? Prior to the 1960's, there was Arab nationalism aligned with syria-- the Palestinians considered themselves southern Syrians. The original use of the term "nakba" was not 1948 but 1923, when the British Mandate of Palestine was separated from the French Mandate of Syria.
The only self-governing entity indigenous to that land (ie not the Crusader Kingdoms) was the Jewish nation. Since then it has always been ruled by outsiders, including Arabs who invaded in the 7th century; that's only about 1500 years after the Jewish nation was established there.

As many of the comments here reveal, the issue really isn't whether the Palestinians should have a state-- even the Israeli gov't supports that. It's whether the one Jewish state--in a portion of the historical Jewish homeland-- should continue to exist. And for those who support a state for the Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians etc but reject it for the Jews-- and only the Jews: there's a word for that double standard.

Does Old Ben even live here anymore? He keeps coming here and spouting out vile comments. Let's ignore his anti-Semitic comments...

Silly Old Ben is so concerned about usage of tax dollars. He doesn't seem to realize that we use Israel to keep a presence in the Middle East. Guess where most of our oil comes from? Guess what is the lifeblood of our economy? The investment in Israel is miniscule when compared to the massive benefits this country receives from having a true ally in that region.

If and when Palestine becomes a state, it will be the 57th Muslim/22nd Arab state. Israel is the world's ONLY Jewish state. This conflict is about carving that 57th Muslim state out of Israel, which is the size of New Jersey.

I might add that it was the Jews who put Jerusalem on the map in the first place and made it important. The Arab mosques were built on top of the ruins of the 1st and 2nd Jewish Temples. Everybody knows that.

Wow @Jesse Mazet. What history books are you reading. Time to sue that school you went to for malpractice. As has already been pointed out, what Palestinian state EVER existed, let alone for thousands of years. The first people to use the term Palestine were the Romans, who when occupying JEWISH land of Israel and called it Palestine in an attempt to separate the land from the people. The Jews had been there for centuries. Arabs started showing up in any numbers around the 7th century with the Muslim invasions. But they again went down significantly after the crusades in the 12 century. There is a long list of owners of the land throughout history, with CONSTANT jewish settlement, none of them "palistinian".

In fact, it was ARAB leadership in 1937 who, when offered a partition of Palestine, said "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."

Sorry for the history lecture, but it always annoys me when people make historical claims that are completely made up.

please both sides avoid labeling people pro-muslim, anti-semitic, or anything esle

please also notice, that it wasn't US that 'created" Israel, the main supporter without whom the State of Israel would never happen was J. Stalin

sure, I don't like many things that Israel does or for the lack of any progress in the peace initiative with the Palestinians. but then the reality is Muslims will never live in peace with any one , even amongst themselves. You can hand them over the entire planet and all the resources and cede them control on everything. What will happen is they will everyone based on some barbaric interpretation of their religious beliefs and burn the whole world into smoke and make it a completely useless place to live for everyone. peace and Islam don't go together. I really think Islam and countries where Islam is a major religion should be banned on the planet and a proper transition to a non religious form should be undertaken. Anybody who disputes my comment should really read the history and look at what is happening in all the islamic countries. denial of basic human rights, oppression of women and children especially girls is the common thing in all these islamic countries. Anyone who cares about peace should really think about freedom of expression and basic human rights as well.

When these so called religions stop denying basic human rights, ability of women to perform religious practices such as becoming priests, stop oppression of women by having to wear clothing to cover their faces, stoning, and laws made by MEN in the oppression of women there will never be peace. Treat others as you want to be treated. AMEN.

I am glad Gov. Brown has the courage and insight to create innovative technical partnerships in the U.S. and with other coumtries in order to move California forward. I applaud Mr. Netanyahou for taking the time to bring his country's leading edge technology to California. As I understand the meeting was more about innovation discussions and trade and less about the middle-east conflict.

War criminals, apartheid ... ridiculous.

Any story about Israel seems to attract detractors like flies on rice, pardon my mixed metaphor.

This is a great idea.

I think people ought to be thinking about Jerry Brown for another Presidential run. Here is a guy who can be bi-partisan, and actually get something done. He has really pulled CA out of a catastrophe, thanks to Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Republicans who just seek to destroy CA so they can blame it on the Democrats.

If anyone wants to see just how non-partisan Governor Brown can be, and you have Amazon Prime, you can watch:
A Firing Line Debate: "Resolved: That the Flat Tax Is Better than the Income Tax" where Brown comes out for the Flat Tax - but for the reason that the tax system is so corrupt now that a flat tax would be more progressive than the phony progressive tax we have now.

I really think Jerry Brown would make a great pragmatic President compares the jerks and clowns we have in there now.

"someone else" .... you just really do not have to qualify that statement ....

> " the reality is Muslims will never live in peace with any one , even amongst themselves."

Well said, John Kaye ...

... and Old Ben .... you complain about the money given to Israel, but one at least one dimension, they took out the Iraqi nuclear reactor ... how would you have liked to face down a nuclear armed Iraq? What do you suppose that was worth?

I agree with John Kaye, this conversation is always directed - every single time I ever see it in the media - pro-Palestinian supporters show up at the faintest mention of Israel and start bashing like the whole issue is completely one-sided and there is no conceivable facts that support Israel's desire to exist.

Yet, we hear over and over about how the Jews control the worldwide media. The rhetoric of Palestinian supporters just does not add up ... that is, until you start to talk to or learn about those that are doing the Israel/Jew bashing.

Shame on you Governor Brown. Where's your moral compass?

So Palestine never existed? So what was is called before 1948? Pre-Israel? Were the natives call Pre-Israelis?

My respond to Laura from the Castro city. Laura, you don't really know what apartheid is. How about South Africa where people don't have any democracy? Israel, is democratic state where people can move freely. Palestinians can move freely as well. For example, when they are sick, they go to visit Doctors in Israel. Is that apartheid? In a good time and bad time, in time of peace and time of war, Israel supply every thing to Gaza. Israel supply 1000+ tons of food. Is that apartheid? Israel defend not only the Israelis but, also Palestinians as well. For example, when Israel go to the war against Hamas in Gaza and, I repeat against Hamas and not civilians, before they do it, Israel call to every house of the Gaza and ask them to evacuate themselves. I don't know any country of the world that would do the same. Israel, isn't apartheid state.Israel want peace. Hamas want war. I will continue to defend and to support Israel and IDF. If our Jewish Community don't stand for Israel then, our Jewish Community don't stand for nothing. What would the Arabs do without Israel? Israel supply them every thing including, food, water, medicine, money and education. And, the Soda Stream Company has about 1000 Palestinians workers who's salary is equal to the Israelis. It's time to boycott people like you who doesn't want Israel.

I don't know which group is more pathetic, the Pro-Israelis or the Pro-Palestinians. Pro-Israelis cry anti-Semetism anytime someone points out Israel's war crimes and the Pro-Palestinians actually believe they can change the powerful Zionist support. At least the Pro-Israeli commenters are being paid (which is even more pathetic)

Web Link

The Pro-Palestine commenters are just wasting there time. You live in a Zionist run world and that will never change.

Oh Tommy Boy, your link, your link are lying ...

> Update 4/3/2012: Above Top Secret’s legal agent never responded to our request for clarification of their takedown request. The original thread has now been moved to the “Hoax” category of the website, as ATS claims the author admitted it was a hoax in a private exchange.

Palestine has been occupied for at least 40,000 years. When the Hebrews arrived about 3500 years ago, they found the Canaanites and Philistines and slaughtered them, as they so exultantly proclaim in the Old Testament. The justification for their atrocities was that their god gave the land to them. A more intelligent interpretation would be that the ancient Hebrews created their crude god to crudely justify their taking of the land (apparently with a lot of interbreeding with the natives). This is Judaism of old. Fortunately, Diaspora Jews are overwhelmingly more humane and fair minded and smarter.

Here is what your Fabulous Gov. is doing

1) Raised income for the workers of Cal, now only second only to NYC. I know the voters approved of it, but he was the one behind it.
2) Has a stupid idea of a fast train to nowhere that will cost taxpayers Billions.
3) Has another stupid idea of diverting our water down south, which would cost taxpayers BILLIONS.

4) He has created a State that is anti company. A lot of them are leaving for Texas and Florida. Companies are sending their jobs either overseas or they are moving their workforce to Texas or Florida.

5) State pensions liabilities/costs are rising exponentially, if anything that will bankrupt CA.

Sent this to Governor Brown via the 'Contact' link on Web Link
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Dear Governor Jerry Brown,

I am shocked that you have made a deal on water conservation with the state of Israel. I had always imagined you to be a moral man at your core, given your background as a former Jesuit. You are either inadequately informed about the situation in the occupied territories with regard to water supplies to the Palestinian people, or you have willfully chosen to ignore the facts. Israel has a horrific record of cutting off water to Palestinian neighborhoods, has caused sewage to run in the streets of Gaza and has diverted water away from Gaza which it is illegally blockading.
I think many Californians are very concerned that you have impugned this great State's reputation as a State that takes care of all of its citizens, celebrates diversity and recognizes the nerd for everyone to be treated fairly and with mutual tolerance; the state of Israel absolutely does not meet any of those criteria, and we should not be doing business with that nation - in fact we should be boycotting all investments in businesses that profit from the illegal occupation, annexation, and settlement of Palestinian territory by Israel. In addition, the despicable deal you have just made takes funding away from home grown innovative California companies that are just as capable, if not more capable, of delivering solutions to the water crisis as the Israeli companies.

I hope you will reconsider this deal on both moral and pragmatic grounds. For sure you have damaged your generally good reputation as a result of this incident: I for one will never vote for you again for any office.

Sincerely,
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