The city council needs to be booted out after their term is over. All of them.

That is the most gaudy looking shopping center redevelopment, I've ever seen. It just doesn't belong. They are just putting lipstick on a pig.
Having that monstrosity with no infrastructure to support it, is just asinine.
With the amount of traffic this shopping center is going to generate, there's no way that it would be bike friendly. Unless you consider getting hit by a car, bike friendly. Helmet, meet car. Rider, meet pavement.

Satan Row in Mtn. View. Got a nice ring to it.

Avoid this area like the plague and SPEND NO MONEY THERE. We can voice our disapproval of this with our checkbooks.

For those that dont like this development, please stay away. There are plenty of people that will pay high rents, shop there, and work there and enjoy the open space amenities

My inside sources tell me that staff is unhappy with council regarding the the outside contract. They also oppose the P zone since with Mayor Inks on board there is a clear majority that favors the project and staff will no longer be able to delay the project and extract more expensive concessions.

What a horrible development. Did you notice the Developer saying:
"Merlone Geier representatives said that [...] some residents hoped [there] would be higher-end retailers than those in phase 1 of the project."

Did these mysterious residents really say they wanted the Developer to be able to charge more rent, so the retailers would have to charge more for the consumer?

This is absolutely ludicrous. The developer is also trying to destroy the Milk Pail business. Trying to shove them over into a different location that will dramatically increase their overhead will simply raise prices to Whole Foods standards.

Who really thinks this is going to be a Santana Row? If Sunnyvale couldn't get it right, how could Mtn View?

"This will be our chance to be a shining star in Silicon Valley."

Oh please!!! This monstrosity is way over the top for the area.

More expensive?!? The jewelry store already sticks out like a sore thumb. If I wanted to buy a nice piece of jewelry the last place I'd go is somewhere where I'm walking past a mattress store to get my diamond.
So Mountain View wants to be Los Altos. We got that. But....we aren't! We are different and IMO better. Totally agree with the lipstick on a pig comment.

Voice your opinion with your wallet. Don't spend your money there. I won't!

A seven story hotel? Are you kidding? Those tall apartments which have no appeal on the outside have already ruined the only open space view of the mountains we had in this area and now a council member is talking about condensing things into taller buildings. Say no to taller buildings council members. Just say no.

Many others well spend money which in turn will bring sales tax money to the city. Mountain View which in the day had Mayfield Mall, Old Mall some what a better San Antonio Shopping Center. The area had more retailers catering to the habits and tastes of shoppers. I never thought that having a jewelry store next to a mattress store would matter and send people elsewhere to shop. Just maybe some retailers want in the new improved retail and entertainment center.

I remember Diamond Center and Crescent Jewelry Store but things change.

Would go to this eye sore when a great shopping center is down the street a couple of miles? Stanford shopping center. This place is gross and will never keep any decent stores. I don't know how the city council sleeps at night.

Council Woman Bryant apparently considers her self to be a professional architect and designer.

Perhaps our city should be renamed Building View.

Personally I like the look of the new center at San Antonio, and the proposed next phase sounds exciting to me. It would be nice to have a few more upscale retailers in the new center and I like the idea of a serious commitment to a pedestrian and bike friendly design. This is ideally situated close to a Caltrain stop, so it is perfect for higher density development. All cities around Mountain View are experiencing the same development pressures, and people are struggling with density. With so many successful companies such as Google, LinkedIn, Facebook, etc., in our midst, we are benefiting from their philanthropy, their tax dollars, and both direct and indirect job growth--and rising property values. With job growth comes demand for other things like housing for a range of incomes, retail, and various services. We are going to urbanize, and what better place to do it than near public transportation? Our challenge and our opportunity as a community is to embrace our position in the center of technology, and then do really good planning so that as we urbanize we never lose sight of the qualities that make a great community. Some people may not like a big new development going in next door to them. If the development is planned well, what those resident may lose in, say, a view of the mountains, they will gain in the ability to walk to a range of things that will enhance their lives.

This is terrible - too dense and not at all inviting. I agree we should use our $ and shop elsewhere. I have only been there once to go to Safeway and won't go back. Parking, access, everything is bad.

Wow!

This development has one thing written on it:
GREED.

Most appropriate name for this shopping center:
==> Greed and Glutton Shopping Center.
or
==> The Concrete and Glass Jungle

Hmm... it will be pedestrian and bicyclist friendly.
Are you serious? Is that why you have 2500+ cars parking
garage included in this monster of a development?

Does anyone thinks this is an architectural achievement?
Based on what standards?
Truly sad!

Who wins?
The developers, their investors, the city council
who will be rewarded with major funds for re-election
campaign from the developers.

With all due respect to all involved.

Let's face it, the communities around Town Square are not upscale. There are way too many high density very old apartment buildings nearby. There might be some upscale residents living in Town Square who can afford the rents but it will take much more than that to support an upscale retail environment. I'm wondering where the folks will come from who will be able to afford to shop there. And San Antonio is a mess now. Why does our city council insist on making it worse for those of us who live here and have to use that road every day.

I've been avoiding El Camino and San Antonio since they started working on this project. It looks like crap. I went to Safeway once, vowed I will NEVER go back. This center is a disgrace to Mountain View. Looks like Los Angeles to me! Building View is right. Makes me so sad to have the view blocked. Bye Bye Council members - epic FAIL.

I am not voting for any of the current council members. Never.

The only way I can describe this thing is horrible. What has been built is not at all what was shown in the proposal drawings. The walls lining El Camino are stark rows of access doors, pipes and sheer, bare wall space. It looks awful and now they are proposing worse.

I now shop a LOT more in Los Altos due to the horrible parking. How on earth is it practical to want this as a walking space if it has a grocery store? I can't haul four bags of groceries while walking. Urban might be okay but it isn't better and it sure isn't what I bargained for when I moved here. I choose to live in the suburbs because I WANT to have open ground. If I wanted a concrete jungle, I'd live in San Francisco. I may occasionally use things in the center, but the current plan will VASTLY reduce the amount of shopping I do there.

The council should be ashamed of themselves for taking a great town and turning it into a monstrosity with their delusions of a grand city. We HAVE a grand city to the north. If we wanted to live there, we would. Let Mountain View be MOUNTAIN VIEW!

Urban OK sounds like a developer spokes person.

Been to the so-called "dog park" in the green space? weird statues, old style astro turf and no water! Seems like a "pretend" dog park, just like the whole Phase 1, the store front says "ice cream" but its empty. Let's "pretend" to close off a street and call it open space.

Abd what price do the residents pay for more tax money, which will be wasted anyway.

With 2500 googlers at Mayfield and another 2500 office workers plus shoppers and hotel guests added to the already jammed area, good luck!

These developers laugh at our city council, but the residents get the joke.

Check ou the pretty "pictures" and see if it matches phase 1:

Web Link

The shinng star of silicon valley? hardly, just another strip mall with a bunch of crammed over priced apartments.

Next year you get to put your money, time, effort and Vote where your writing is. There will be 3 vacancies on City Council. If we elect 3 Mountain View resident friendly Council-members, who don't have their heads in a dark place,like Jac Siegel (he is terming out) and John McAlister we will have a majority! Time to stop complaining and join me in Taking Back Mountain View!

First things first ... I've lived in Mountain View for 20 years and just love that I don't actually live in one of the officially sanctioned "neighborhoods". Lovely.

Now, on to this monstrosity. @ John - thanks for posting the link to the developers vision for the corner of San Antonio and El Camino. OMG ... if I wanted to live in San Francisco or San Jose, I'd live there. Like psr stated earlier, I chose to live in the suburbs because I LIKE the suburbs. I LIKE green things, lawns, dirt, gardens, open space, views of the mountains, being able to see the sky without straining my neck. That's why I moved to Mountain View. I'm sorry to see the mountain view disappearing.

I have lived in Mtn. View for 49 years now. Up until recently this city still seemed like a small town, WITH mountain views!!! Not any more.

So in this newest shopping center, there will be more upscale stores. Are most of us in this town rich??? I think not. Who will shop in these upscale stores? Google and Facebook employees??? Perhaps one of the restaurants that can come in and do business is Sizzler, which is leaving its' current spot on El Camino in two weeks. Maybe the merchant can relocate to the new San Antonio Center.

I do not think I will ever get used to the idea of a 7 story hotel and a 6 story parking garage. Again there goes our mountain views!!! Again I have lived in this city since I was 10, and that was 49 years ago. I do remember all the open space we had then. But no more. I guess that is called progress. Can't stay the same forever, RIGHT????

I take my dog to the new dog park every day. In case you hadn't noticed, the main dog park is dirt. Which means when it rains it's mud. Another dog park was just given up on and is also dirt now..which means when it rains--it's mud.

I live right by "The Village." And for every message here from people in other neighborhoods who presume to speak for everyone, there is at least one person EVERY DAY who drives to this new dog park. Obviously it is serving people from all areas.

Guess what... Stanford Shopping center is remodeling as well. Have you not been there in the last 2 years??

Stanford is a shopping mall. It has beautiful landscaped walking spaces with stores I want to go to. It is a destination. I know Stanford and this is no Stanford! This is a glorified strip mall with no way to walk between stores except to traverse the parking lot and no exciting stores. I was excited when this was proposed and now I just feel disappointed.

I agree that some of Phase 1 has design flaws but won't send me running to spend dollars in another city. Phase 1 is not fully leased, not perfect but not that bad. Phase 2 is not approved.

To the north is Stanford Mall and to the south is Valley Fair along with neighboring Santana Row. All of which are very upacale full of very high end stores which I don't think Phase 1 or 2 will attract. It might however get really nice stores or services beyond discount stores but below the high end malls. We won't see a Sears, Penney's, or Macy's anywhere in the San Antonio area. When 1 and 2 along with the new Target then the area will start to attract retailers.

With each passing tech boom which has attracted talent by funds so they van build ghe latest hot products for the world wide market. Each year the prices have gone up along with the yearly wages of those in the tech. The Sizzler which might have decided the costs of staying in Mountain View was to high. Food costs, wages, rent and high income bracket that would prefer to spend more and get better. The store was not profitable anymore.

Thank you John for the link.

Wow that's just ugly. Big blocky clunky buildings, tons of concrete, minimal amount of greenery, it's just ugly.

Too bad they couldn't make it pretty and green and appealing like Stanford Shopping Center.

I went to their Safeway once. An effort. I prefer Blossom Valley Safeway,Nob Hill and I just hope they don't take Trader Joe's away. Instead of using El Camino and then down San Antonio, I take El Camno, right on Showers and left on California and then get back on San Antonio. I have lived here 55 years and am able to adjust to change, but their plan is obscene. Rita

I also avoid many department stores. When my son and daughter were married a friend recommended Blue Nile for jewlery. Each is happy with the diamond and wedding rings bought their spouses. Rita

I don't have a dog, but every time I've biked past the new dog park on my way to Safeway/TJs I've seen dogs and owners enjoying the space.

I was also surprised to see how many of the adjacent table seating areas were being used by people just hanging out. Since most of the apartments aren't even finished yet, I was pleased to see it already being used.

Don't blame me. I voted for the guy wearing the cowboy hat.

"Pretty and appealing like Stanford Shopping center?" It's among the worst of the bland cement building projects you see along El Camino.

Not unlike the indoor/outdoor open cement steps that dominate office buildings between Redwood City and Santa Clara.

Two places you see these dreary, insipid architectural features-- INSIDE the office space in Palo Alto and OUTSIDE of sad-looking, run-down, 40 year old apartment buildings.

The carpet bagging Monta Loma residents should really mind their own business. They have almost no retail/business in their area. They quite possibly moved to that area because of that. But their constant, unrelenting disregard for the opinions of others, including those such as myself who actually live in the area in question is both offensive and ignorant.

They continue flogging the dead horse of "traffic" and "not the Mountain View I knew" without having even the slightest concept of what people in the neighborhood surrounding the Village have concerns about. Or perhaps they do and their unrestrained arrogance doesn't allow them to control their habit machine gunning their opinions in an attempt to drown out anyone who does not agree with them.

Is there anyone complaining about either phase of the new project(s) that can say ==with a straight face== that the serpentine maze of driveways, one way passages, random curbs, and undecipherable driveways and the tedious, mix multi-generational cheap -as-possible, dreary strip mall chaos that was there before is not far, far worse than the new project?

Be serious.

Do any of you remember Stanford Mall before 1980, yes it has good department stores but the mall part was small and pokey.

Valley Fair along with Steven Creek Plaza before 198o which both were small and pokey. Macy's and Emporium were found in both malls an. We had Penney's, Sears, Emporium, Liberty House, Mervyn's, 2 Woolworth's, JM (Joseph Magnin) and many other stores in Mountain View. We had a nice mix which was remember fondly by us who shopped in their stores and our dollars stayed within Mountain View

Sunnyvale Town Center, Vallco were built, Stanford was remodeled, Stevens Creek Plaza got merged into Valley Fair and then remodeled. San Jose Town and Country Village became Santana Row.

Meantime Mayfield Mall closed up, Old Mill died and then torn down for housing. We lost JC Penney's and Sears closed. Emporium, Liberty House, JM closed up and went out of business. The Gap left. Woolworth went out of business. We have a Kohls, Wal Mart and Target.

The shoppers started leaving Mountain View over 30 years ago.

From a Monte Loma carpetbagger:(whatever that means)
About the so-called dog park
As far as a park for either dogs or people it is a poor offering. It is made with a cheap artificial turf that certainly is not comfortable and it gets blazing hot. There is no water source. Someone was kind enough (it may have been the Adobe Hospital) left a pan and some bottled water but that only was there for the day I was there
About the ..."mix multi-generational cheap -as-possible, dreary strip mall chaos that was there before is not far, far worse than the new project?" question seriously? So its being replaced by another cheap strip mall?

You got all you wanted and more! Height, density minimal public improvements or infrastructure, unfortunately all the neighborhoods, including Monta Loma, will pay the bills. City council and city employess ro;;ed over and did all they could do to accomodate MG and their ilk. So enjoy the win and quit being a sore winner!

I love our fellow "citizens" who say that it is an improvement over what was just there. Sorry, but that is BS. If the council will stand up for the residents, then the developer will have to accept the reality. Unfortunately, the developer knows that MV Council is the weakest in the bay area so just has to hold out until the climate is developer friendly/resident hostile and then come in with their demands.

"Flava Dave" is an MG shill--ignore him.

I've been here far longer than MG or the recent issue voters who . It's good that you all continue to publicly record your lack of research on the subject.

For example the fact that water is coming to the park. Or the fact that Greer park which is on just a few turns off San Antonio has been there 50 years and there still is no water for the dog park.

Sorry if you think you are the only Mountain View residents that should have an opinion.

Hey Flava Dave

Tell us where you are getting all of this great info. I can't find it on the website for the development. I'd love to find out details about which stores are coming or that there will be water for the dog park (seems strange that it wouldn't be there when the park was opened)

A Shoreline West poster wrote:

"Or the fact that Greer park which is on just a few turns off San Antonio..."

Isn't Greer Park in Palo Alto ... and 3-4 miles away from the San Antonio Center?

I agree with what has bee built is far better then what has stood here. Phase 1 is not perfect, ideal and was changed after the land was purchased for Phase 2. 2 story retail buildings would have been built facing the dog park and the apartment buildings.

Phase 2 is not perfect but again far better then the Woolworth/Thrifty building which is outdated.

Before you say I am shrill but I just like to see more of strong retail presence in Mountain View. What is wrong with more stores, more places to frequent and more tax money coming in?

I know city has tried for a hotel with meeting space since the early 80's. Would have been better with Target in a newer version of Phase 2.

You can get information by going to the city council meetings--for example about water being put in.

The jewelry store and mattress store are pretty disappointing though, those once every few years purchase type store would do fine NOT in the center of town.

I don't see anything wrong with a Sleep Number store near a Jared Jewelry stores which both have a customer following. I sleep on a sleep number bed, great bed.

I think in time we are going to see good stores. Not everyone is wants the same kind of stores.

Here are my ideas. Vintage Clothing, T-shirt and Jean shop, lamp stores, furniture stores that sells vintage, burritos shop, beer store, shoe store, a good small drug store, ice cream shop, media store, Milk Pail Market with seafood, meat, fruit and veg and bottle shop. Bakery, Car parts. Book stall in the plaza, CD/movie seller in the plaza, flowers in the plaza, toy and hobby shop, game shop both computer and board style. I want a hot dog, go see a movie and afterward get a good meal with a beer. I want to have fun after work and shop for my new place also

as garett comes in and kills the thread with fantasy.....

MG will do whatever it wants with a pliable council, as has said before Mountain View was selected for this monstrosity for a reason

if the MG could do whatever they wanted, they would have already. Not keep moving the sidewalks back and back...and back...and making them wider...and wider...and wider... and doing setbacks......

John have you been to the city council meetings....EVER?

The only stores I go to in this whole area is Kohl's, Target, and Gamestop.

The only store I really care about is Gamestop. I won't be shopping in

this new development. But I hope I can still get to Gamestop.

I just have one question to ask really. Does anyone drive by Sunnyvale's

redeveloped area? If they did they would notice no one goes there.

I usually shop on the Internet and have the delivery truck come right to my door. I think a lot of people shop this way. Who are going to go to all these stores? As someone said, the Palo Alto Shopping Mall is already established and right down the street. The Sunnyvale redeveloped area is a ghost town. No one goes to Vallco in Cupertino.

If this is going to be successful, they will need to attract some very
unique businesses to setup shop. Google and Amazon will give me my product
within the hour to wherever I tell them to.

I don't know if you have been keeping up with the news but Netflix is thinking about having same day new releases so you can watch new movies
at your house the same day they are in the theater. I'm sure Mountain
View can support 2 over-priced theaters when I can watch the movie in my
house, probably for a lower price.

Also, if you talk to your friends you may have noticed a lot of them work
from home at least part-time so do we really need more office space?

Are we going against the real trends in society with this development?

If you play computer or video games which I don't but that is just me. I understand Gamestop is great.for buying or trading games. I understand you can buy online or in the store which I prefer in store. Jobs and.talking with a clerk is nice or others.

Yes it might be a fanstay to have a vintage store in the San Antonio Center or someplace that sells nice shirts. What is wrong with buying a shirt or a vintage lamp. I hate men's clothing at Wal. Mart and don't get me started on Ross. Target and Kohl's are fair.

What people do with their money when it comes to taste, style or whatever people chose to spend hard earned dollars.(

Did I miss the part of Phase 3 and 4, when the wall is erected to block out the existing buildings to the east? This master plan seems to have a larger agenda that truly will alter Mtn View of the unwanted.

I guess there are some who prefer going to the store. Not me. I haven't been to Valley Fair since 2000 and I used to live right near there.

All I am saying is they are going to need to get some unique stores so this can be successful.

What can I do here that I can't do somewhere else? I don't just stay in Mountain View if I want to go to a store. What's the awesome stuff that
is going to make me say I have to go there?

This is a lousy location for shopping. What is being built is a hotel and an office building and a few shops. The kind of shops that will work are just those that support the hotel and the office buildings, i.e. lunch restaurants and various services. This is too large of a development and the apartments in the center form an impenetrable barrier from one end to the other. The grocery store draws traffic to the one end, but I don't see this working along California. They ought to give Milk Pail free rent for the traffic it would bring to that end of the center. This is going to end up being dumb. Just wait and see.

Where's the school or open public park? That would have been much more useful.

Since this project might become yet another "Planned Community", maybe it's time Mountain View has a serious discussion about them.

Here's what a recent Daily Post editorial had to say about PC zoning in Palo Alto:
(Sorry. Copying large blocks of text from other publications violates copyright law.)

A tunnel sounds awful. They quickly become dirty, dark, and dangerous at night.

@MV-Voice - would a link be more acceptable?

Here's the recent Daily Post editorial about (Planned Community) PC zoning in Palo Alto: Web Link

Garrett says...; Here are my ideas. Vintage Clothing, T-shirt and Jean shop, lamp stores, furniture stores that sells vintage, burritos shop, beer store, shoe store, a good small drug store, ice cream shop, media store, Milk Pail Market with seafood, meat, fruit and veg and bottle shop. Bakery, Car parts.

Vintage clothing stores are a thing of the past and is a niche market. They won't generate enough business revenue to stay afloat. If you want to be a hipster and buy vintage clothes, you go to SF. Not Mtn. View.

Lamp stores. LOL

Furniture stores that sells vintage. Again, a niche market.

Burrito shop. Drive a few mins away and go to burrito triangle.

Beer store. Bevmo, Safeway, 7-eleve, and YFN liquor stores are all around.

Shoe store. Who goes to a shoe store, unless you mean Payless?

A good small drug store. This isn't the 1950s, so what's the purpose? There is Safeway, Walgreens, and Rite-Aid all in close proximity.

Ice cream shop. Across the street is Cold Stone, 31 Flavors is a few mins away, and so is are a number gelato yogurt shops downtown.

Media store. LOL. Who buys media? Also, Rasputin is down the street.

All of these shops you listed with the exception of 'vintage items', which no one in Mtn View is interested in and won't survive the high rent, are all redundant.

Why would any want to open or relocate a business to Mountain View. People who work and end up living here might desire to buy from Walgreens or seek another kind of store.

Yes I like vintage clothing and others might to. Funny thing I found nice vintage styles at The Men's.Warehouse and Old Navy.

My ideas are mine but I am sure that others seek their own personal ideas about shopping.

I really liked Long's Drugs, I miss Long's which were friendly, the employees were great. I know shop at Safeway

Long's Drugs was AWESOME!! It was a real shame to see it go. CVS is so PLASTiC by comparison that even Walgreen's is nicer to shop at.

The high rents they are charging do severely limit what will ever go into the space at San Antonio. They are betting they can command rents like Stanford Shopping Center. Good luck on that one. There's a reason this hasn't been done before. There just isn't enough cost-insensitive purchasing power in Mountain View to keep high rent stores in business so we'll be seeing stores stick with the cheaper spots in town, even as they too increase their rents.

CVS carved a niche for beauty product stores out of their former Longs space and those got shut down in short order. The spaces are available to rent and have gone begging for over a year now. There's one over there in the shopping center with Cold Stone

I agree with the posting by Konrad M. Sosnow of Bailey Park, "Next year you get to put your money, time, effort and vote where your writing is. There will be 3 vacancies on City Council. If we elect 3 Mountain View resident friendly Council-members, who don't have their heads in a dark place, like Jac Siegel (he is terming out) and John McAlister we will have a majority." I've read all the comments to the end of those posted, and feel as if there are a lot of negative opinions about this proposed Phase 2. We live near San Antonio Road and see the glut of traffic there heading towards 101 during many hours of the day -- it can barely handle what's on the road now, and adding a huge hotel and a greater density of shops will burden San Antonio with even more traffic using 101, not to mention what El Camino will be like at the intersection of those two roads. The height and density proposed are too much for the property Phase 2 will cover. It would be a shame to compound the extreme height and density present in Phase 1 by adding the ill-conceived Phase 2 as it stands now. Others who have compared the San Antonio project to Stanford Shopping Center haven't voiced what I feel is one significant difference between the two -- Stanford Shopping Center has, visually at least, the appearance of being on one level (even with some stores going more than one story). The San Antonio project overwhelms with its intense verticality, when it comes to building presence. It appears it may be too late to stop the projected Phase 2, but if it isn't, I'd like to add my voice to those who want it stopped (as planned) and be reconsidered thoroughly. We've found, in the past, going to council meetings to be a waste of time. There was a proposed project to be built near us, and we went to all the meetings until it became clear the project was going to go ahead, regardless of what we and other neighbors had to say at the meetings. Could Phase 2 be put to a local, public vote?

Google is the greatest on the company on this planet and it will be
the greatest for several decades into the future. Mountain View is
very lucky to have Google headquartered in their city.

Perhaps Google could have purchased the entire 10 acres on
which San Antonio Phase-1 and Phase-2 are being built. Instead
of 7 story office buildings, 6-story parking garage, 7 story hotel
and a 8-screen 1800 seater movie theater, Google could have just made
the whole area into a 2-story offices + 2-story-apartments
with underground-only parking. Also, roof-top garden to help
the environment.

Any more than 2-story offices and apartments in these 10 acres
will not work because of traffic issues.

Every city wants their own mixed-use-colossal-shopping-complexes.
Sunnyvale has one, Palo Alto has Stanford Shopping Center. Mountain
View wants all shopping dollars to go to their city. Cupertino has
been doing it for years -- have you looked the Vallco Mall & surroundings
lately? What are we to do with this many shopping centers?
We have Amazon, Google Shopping Express that will allow most of
us to buy most things online.

Thank Goodness Los Altos is staying out of this shopping center
race and preserving the suburban atmosphere. Los Altons do love
shopping at the Palo Alto Shopping Center & Valley Fair Mall.
When you shop mostly online, it is fun to drive to these special
malls couple of times a year :-)

This development will end up being wonderful and make Mountain View a destination. A conference center, high-end hotel and theaters, thoughtful architecture using the finest materials and green technology. Draying folks from all over the world. Right now there is nowhere equal anywhere in the area. This is called progress. It always takes time to adjust to the change.

In a few years the surrounding properties are all going to be redeveloped and they, too will be taller and face the same nay-sayers as we have today. I have followed MG since the beginning and they are very reasonable people. If you do not like the new Village then please plan to shop elsewhere. I plan to enjoy the scenery and stores and pet some of the dogs in the dog park. The old San Antonio Center was a maze of confusing alleys and ugly buildings. Who is pining for the past? Really!

Stanford Mall which at one time was old, outdated and when they made it more upscale. Lots of businesses were driven out which the same argument against the remodeling of Stanford.

Stanford is owned by one ownwer and.didn't have rely on different properties owners buying and planning retail improvements.

Stanford Mall is worth quite a.bit of money but had the wealth of being owned by Stanford. MG paid for clunker has been part of a shopping center.

Why should Mountain View watch the parade of shoppers, stores, businesses and taxes leave.

Even East Palo Alto has gotten tall buildings, a Four Season Hotel and who knows what else.

All over we outdated retail centers that don't age well. They get sold for more money and yet we expect 50's era buildings, 80's era rent and 2013 prices with property tax. How can you earn profit for you and your investors.

Stanford Shopping Center used to have Woolworths. And lots of small stores. But of course people in these comments would have you believe it was the only upscale set of shops ever created in the state and there is no reason to have any others.

And as I'm sure they are unaware of, Valley Fair has just gone through another renovation and "added" a new upscale wing. With the help of celebrity of the moment _____. Wait...I'm not going to say who.... the folks against change need to do their homework....

I am one who.understand change and do I like it. No, not really, would rather have things the way they were. Hobby Shop, Sears lunch counter, Mayfield Mall, Scuttlebutt, Menu Tree, Andy's, Payless, Ken's and Linda's Drive In.

But things can't.stay the same. My grandparents, my parents all talked about different changes and also things to remain the.same.

I didn't like when they built the Trader Joe's part of the shopping center that was built. I missed my tailor who had lay away service.

Stanford Shopping Center and Valley Fair have been dolloped and modified to be visually appealing as much as practicable. Stanford believes in quality at all levels. Stanford Shopping Center targets middle income and up customers. Westfield, which owns Valley Fair Mall, similarly goes for quality in all if their properties.

Yes, these properties have changed over the years, generally for the better.

Does a shopping center have to be ugly? Of course not say Stanford and Westfield. So why does Mountain View have to have ugly, low quality projects? Mountain View has the wrong developer with the wrong project being supported by the, developer-first five, majority of City Council members.

Hey Folks - I was born at El Camino Hospital in the mid-60's and attended Monta Loma, Crittenden and the ORIGINAL MVHS! My mom still lives in the little Eichler my parents bought back in 1959 behind the old Mayfield Mall. This neighborhood will always be special to me as I spent so many hours discovering all of its nooks and crannies. That being said - I think it is about time that the city spruced up the huge area that once housed the likes of Sears, Mervyns, Grodins, Best, Gemco, The Menu Tree, Oshman's Sporting Goods and the cool old Burger King that was owned by former 49er Len Rhode! Does anyone even remember the Old Mill Shopping center across the street? As a kid, I thought that was the greatest place on earth!! You felt like you were part of a ride at Disneyland! Imagine how disappointed I was to hear that it was closing down and being replaced by townhomes, but at the same time elated to hear that we were getting an awesome music venue like Shoreline Amphitheater. This resilient city deserves a nice, clean shopping area like the one proposed in the artist renderings attached to the article. Although, it would be nice if they modeled it to look more like the Grove in Hollywood...Viva Mountain View!

Valley Fair Mall like Stanford Mall planned, upgraded and did really good marketing for retailers. The first remodeled of Stanford was ho hum, but it got better but last time I was there you could see small details of the 50's era center. Macy's was a key store in both malls which we had Liberty House. Like I said before it helped that both malls were under One management team that controlled the entire mall.

San Antonio Mall wasn't so lucky, a owner here a owner there. Different management and marketing teams and different building design. Westtfield Malls is far better when it comes to mall employees and customer services. Simon Properties manage Stanford which is deals with high income centers.

San Antonio shopping center would need a developer like.Westfield.or Simon to.come in and buy the entire San Antonio shopping area. San Antonio Rd, California St, Showers Dr and El Camino Real. Tear down, plan what would be a very large shopping. Department stores, large national retailers, cinemas, large super market and a hotel.

Some of Westfield properties do hotels, office buildings, theaters and other ways to attract shoppers.

All cities in south bay are building urban centers like crazy. Stanford Shopping Center, Santana Row, Valco Mall, Valley Fair, etc., even quaint Los Altos downtown is building several large structures right now.

Santa Clara is actively planning a super large city bigger than Santana Row around the 49ers Stadium, with Joe Montana pitching in for a hotel.

Up north Redwood City has been actively expanding its downtown non-stop. San Francisco is in a building boom as well.

If our national economy is as good as Silicon Valley we would have had GDP growth like China.

Having said that Mountain View must compete. This project is the marquee project to put Mountain View onto the same playing level as other cities. Its potential to transform the surrounding area for generations to come is humongous.

My understanding (from folks who lived here before I moved to CA in 1980) is that when San Antonio Shopping Center was being built, there were discussions about whether this land/shopping center would be part of Mountain View or part of Los Altos. And Los Altos was not interested, because a shopping center was not considered part of the rural "image" that Los Altos wanted.

The upshot is that Mountain View has reaped taxes from the retailers in San Antonio Shopping Center for these many decades. I would suggest (as have others) that at least the side facing toward San Antonio Road was in rapid decline over more than a decade and needed redevelopment.

And let's not forget the enormous and fabulous Sunnyvale Downtown expansion that is almost complete.

@ localbuoy.

Bubb, Graham, Awalt and Mountain View. I grew up near Cuesta Park. I explored all sorts of places, Old MV not what you thinking. Downtown, Pettis and Bailey area loved going.down California St. Something about all the different names, colors and yet all the same boxy feel.

Mayfield Mall, The Old Mill and San Antonio Mall all had wonders to be found. Food, big wooden doors, water wheel but the stores. The people who worked or own the stores. Also being able to find everything you need and them some.

Stig's Bakery ended up on my side of town along with Micheal's Mensware. State Deli and hearing locals talk about Food City.

Side note if anyone.cares about knowing. Safeway in Blossom Valley a very popular deli to close.

San Antonio Road runs from Foothill Expressway to Terminal Drive which means 3 cities have a say in the matter of running a road. 101 interchange belongs to the state but I heard talks about rebuilding.

So why in the last 30 years has San Antonio Road has gotten worse and will get worse. The area has been on building boom for the last 50 years. We built schools, shopping centers, offices and whole.cities in South Korea have been built.

Traffic has gotten steady.worse on San Antonio Rd and no really big changes.

It took years for Willow (Sand Hill) Rd to finally make it to El Camino.

First, I appreciate all builders especially MG for their sincere efforts
in creating works of art. It is the suitability of high-density we are
debating about.

No one is objecting to building new in the San Antonio shopping center.
However...
Unlike Stanford shopping Mall, Valley Fair Mall and Vallco Mall,
the San Antonio Shopping center is in the middle of nowhere.
Stanford shopping Mall, Valley Fair Mall and Vallco Mall are
in the middle of a vast expanse of open space and / or immedaite
access to freeways.

With Amazon and Google Shopping Express and other ONLINE
shopping possibilities, and to top it, every neighboring city
building up their colossus of shopping centers, not at all clear
that these shopping centers will have all that many visitors.

The problem with San Antonio Shopping Center is the number
of floors in the buildings. Build new with just
two floors and underground parking.
Just because every city is doing it... Mountain View can't just
jump into the fire -- MV needs to understand the traffic
implications, etc..

Los Altos Downton is an exceptionally beautiful space... I hope
that no highrises will be planned there. Contrast downtown Los Altos
with Castro Street and Palo Alto's University Avenue -- traffic
nightmare is what comes to mind.

I just hate to say this but Garrett needs to learn the art of correct grammar, punctuation, spelling, and word tense.

In the meantime I do miss all those older stores that have since bit the dust in Mountain View. All my old haunts have disappeared; the Mayfield Mall, the Old Mill, and Sunnyvale Town Center Mall. I don't know where to hang out now...

My previous comments to this thread which I have been typed on cell phone keyboard with spotty services. So I has to think fast, type fast and check for errors fast. Which wasn't fast enough or I should say to fast.

The last one was bad which I know this, got home and read and said YUCK.

Why has San Antonio Road allowed to get so bad with traffic? Lets look at it, the road runs the length from Foothill Expressway to Terminal Drive which is just on the other side of the 101 interchange. The interchange is maintained by the state while the rest of San Antonio Road has handle by the cities of Los Altos, Mountain View and Palo Alto. Over the years I have heard discussions about rebuilding and other improvements on the San Antonio Road but yet no big changes on this vital route.

Growth along this route has been in the making for over 50 years and like I said before "yet no big changes on the vital route".

As a long time resident of Mountain View I remember when Castro Street was a ghost town on weekends-- before the redevelopment in the 1990's. The liveliest places were the bars that opened at 6 a.m. I don't pine for the gold old days, even though roller skating across Castro Street on Saturday mornings was easier for an 8 year old to do.

Council members please stop taking away our open spaces and stop approving more buildings. You've already took away our neighborhood farm, make the road more congested, what else are you going to take away from us? I don't want to live in Building View!

San Antonio Shopping Center was fine in its day. It even predates my tie-dyes and bell bottoms. Upgrading is good!

Redevelopment can be of high quality, mediocre quality, or poor quality. Developers prefer mediocre quality because that is how they can maximize their profits. City Council’s job is to push back and make sure that the development is optimized for Mountain View, NOT for the developers. Somehow, Mountain View gets mediocre quality.

Mayor John Inks, Vice-Mayor Chris Clark, VTA Representative Margaret Abe-Koga, Councilmember Ronit Bryant, and Councilmember R. Michael Kasperzak, Jr. are puppets for the out of town developers. I know that they take care of the developers – what do the developers do for them? Only Councilmember Jac Siegel and Councilmember John McAlister listen and are interested in the views and need of Mountain View residents.

The good news is that VTA Representative Margaret Abe-Koga and Councilmember Ronit Bryant are terming out in January 2015. The bad news is that Councilmember Jac Siege will also term out then.

In order to Take Back Mountain View we need to elect three (3) new Councilmembers who will listen to and will be interested in the views and need of Mountain View residents. It will not be easy as they will be opposed by the out of town developers, the VTA, and building unions. It will take lots of time, lots of work, and some money. The results will be well worthy it!

I wouldn't call San Antonio Shopping Center open space or something than could be admired as beauty.

When my parents moved out of Mountain View in the 80's, they moved to Rocklin up near Sacramento in a place called the Sunset Whitney area. It was pretty nice, lots of open space just over the small hill, cattle, deer and small animals.

25 years later, houses, shopping centers, a high school with many other schools, a small university have been built. Use to drive from Rocklin to Roseville with open space between both places which today is not a large shopping complex with lots of stores and shopping center.

So I don't think of San Antonio ever being open space unless you can time travel back 1948.

Just so we are clear, I live in Monroe Park, right next to this monstrosity. Just because the MVoice doesn't recognize my area as one of their choices, we are affected by this more than many in the rest of the city.

If anyone thinks that the builds that have just been constructed will age better than anything else that was there before, please go stand at San Antonio and El Camino and take a good, long look at that hideous purple tower over the Starbucks store. Do you REALLY think THAT is going to look great in ten years? Please!

Palo Alto residents win against their bought out developer-city council/ staff!

Is this the spark we need to start taking our city back?

Oh by the way, I have been to life sucking, mind boggling city council meetings with the delays and late starts and "studies". They are clearly oriented towards professional deveolpers and city staff. Residents/taxpayers need not apply.

San Antonio Shopping center is getting a great transformation by
the developer MG and the city council. The only thing that seems
to be bothersome is high-density. Would it be possible to keep
everything under 2 stories?

It is a surprise that Palo Alto residents took this much trouble:
Voters shoot down Maybell development
Palo Alto's 'No on D' campaign wins by nearly 1,500 votes
www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2013/11/05/measure-d-opponents-on-the-verge-of-victory
Web Link

Surprised about taking the "trouble"? More like serious concerns.

Some quotes from the article:
"David Price announced in the Post many weeks ago that the Maybell campaign would be the spark for similar campaigns against PC zoning throughout the Peninsula, perhaps the state"

And of course Palo Alto's troubles can apply to Mountain View:
"Those are all serious concerns for those of us who live here and whose quality of life is effected by the high-density rezoning that is taking place throughout the city."

The MG phase 1 2 3 4 5 eon and on is the definition of high density zoning taking over our city and destroying our quality of life.

San Francisco voted down the 8 Washington project, Palo Alto turned down Maybell, others are watching and learning from this. Yet we all want our larger shopping centers, more stores, better theaters, income from a growing stock market and jobs. Yet somehow you want to keep it like the 1950's with small buildings, views and suburban lifestyle in the middle of what can only be describe as a major center in the world.

According to an article in The Economist

"Stephen Levy at the Centre for the Continuing Study of the Californian Economy estimates the GDP of the valley's 2m inhabitants at around $65 billion--much the same as that of Chile's 15m people."

While Stanford and Valley Fair/Santana Row are doing a wonderful job attracting high end stores. What about middle of the road stores for us.

I drive all the way on San Antonio Road everyday from the Los Altos side
to get to 101. It is simply hard to see how San Antonio Road from
El Camino intersection to 101 access can ever handle the traffic that
will result from the Phase-2 San Antonio Shopping Center. It is already
very congested.

The kind of high-density in San Antonio Shopping Center phase-1 and
phase-2 belong along freeways like 101 and at the freeway entry
and freeway exit.

The most suitable development in San Antonio Shopping center is
two story (or less) buildings with lots of pedestrian walkways. And
of course underground parking garages only at the periphery, i.e.
at the boundaries of this shopping center.

garret seems to be a full time commentator on these boards--maybe a little less is more?

It is time to fix San Antonio Rd, the 2 story option will cause traffic, any kind of building will cause traffic unless you build less and less.

'village.sanantonio' says above: "San Antonio Shopping center is getting a great transformation by the developer MG and the city council. The only thing that seems to be bothersome is high-density. Would it be possible to keep
everything under 2 stories?"

The answer to this is NO, if you want to see any kind of investment or improvement happen to the center. Underground parking is incredibly expensive to build (upwards of $50,000 per space) it is simply not economical to build 1 or 2 stories of development and have underground parking. You might see it for a few select developments, like the Whole Foods across the street, but you won't see it for entire shopping centers.

So our choice essentially becomes: accept that the remainder of San Antonio Center will stay an outdated, decaying shopping center that's hard to walk around... or embrace a slightly taller development like what MG is proposing.

Who says its decaying and outdated other than MG and their spokespeople. of course, driving of Barron park Plumbing et al doesn't help.

Plenty of people go to BEV MO and Ross and the Milk Pail and the corner eateries, plus the other tenants. They wouldn't be in business if they didn't.
This new modorrn better jewel mantra got us Phase 1, a strip mall by any other name.

A lot of emotional rhetoric and cliches to describe the evil that the council in cahoots with evil developers is imposing on the fair residents of Mountain View. If only this were true. Growth based on market demands is voluntary and good, and will always involve destruction of resources and the creation of new resources. Those that are satisfied with the status quo can look to Los Altos, which is now trying to recover from 30 years of essentially no new development downtown. Its a ghost town there on weekends because hardly anyone goes there and spends money. The San Antonio Phase I development is already a success story and when office space is located there in phase II, people will have the opportunity to live and work nearby if they so choose. Some of the complainers above do not even live near this location and are retired with nothing else to do but complain. Nearby residents are more likely to have their view blocked by trees than the structures at San Antonio.

Tom Means, stop the constant name calling already of anyone who does not agree with your free market mentality.

"emotional rhetoric" "cliches" "those that are satisfied with the status quo" "ghost town" "complainers" "nothing else to do but complain" and more

Just because people have other opinions gives you no right to summarily dismiss their views as inferior to your own. You can learn to respectfully disagree without the childish name calling.

@Political Insider,

Since you know so much, what are the out of town Developers giving Mayor John Inks, Vice-Mayor Chris Clark, VTA Representative Margaret Abe-Koga, Councilmember Ronit Bryant, and Councilmember R. Michael Kasperzak, Jr. in return for their 100% support?

The Developers are not evil. They are business people out to maximize their profits. They know that the way to maximize profits is to use every square foot, with maximum density, and keep costs low. The result is mediocrity.

City Council is supposed to do what is bet for the residents of Mountain View. Unfortunately, Mayor John Inks, Vice-Mayor Chris Clark, VTA Representative Margaret Abe-Koga, Councilmember Ronit Bryant, and Councilmember R. Michael Kasperzak, Jr. are puppets for the out of town developers.

My family would move to Los Altos in a micro second if we could. We shop there every weekend. I will be having dinner there tonight. It is not a ghost town.

BTW, I am an employed businessconsultant

San Antonio Shopping center is relatively far away from freeway entry/exit. High density construction here will lead to disastrous traffic congestion.
Low density construction is fine and adequate.

Mountain View should build high density along freeways (101) and
at the entry/exit. This is more sensible from traffic stand point.

On a related note...
At the rate apartment residents are increasing in Mountain View, they
might outnumber the number of people in all the single family residences
in Mountain View. No wonder the current home owners in Mountain View
are concerned.

@ there you go again,

"stop the constant name calling ... anyone who does not agree with your free market mentality."

You are the one who is name calling and you are incorrect about my identity and if you are not for free markets, does this mean you are for regulated or govt controlled markets like Obamacare. Hows that working. It just happens that free and open markets lead to superior outcomes.

"emotional rhetoric" "cliches" "those that are satisfied with the status quo" "ghost town" "complainers" "nothing else to do but complain" and more


These are merely my reactions to reading the comments above. They don't represent reality in my opinion. Maybe you should learn how to express yourself better if you are easily upset by criticism. Not all ideas and arguments are equal. Some are better than others


"Just because people have other opinions gives you no right to summarily dismiss their views as inferior to your own. You can learn to respectfully disagree without the childish name calling."

Again I didnt say they were inferior and didnt engage in name calling. The rhetoric is just not very informative since it contains misinformation bout the council and developer motives.


@Konrad M. Sosnow,


"Since you know so much, what are the out of town Developers giving Mayor John Inks, Vice-Mayor Chris Clark, VTA Representative Margaret Abe-Koga, Councilmember Ronit Bryant, and Councilmember R. Michael Kasperzak, Jr. in return for their 100% support?"

Nothing but feel free to ask them yourself.

The Developers are not evil. They are business people out to maximize their profits. They know that the way to maximize profits is to use every square foot, with maximum density, and keep costs low. The result is mediocrity.

Agree with the first part but not the second part. A staff report a few years ago reported that developers build at about 63% of the maximum density. You forget that there are other planning constraints that make it difficult to reach the maximum density. As to mediocrity, that's subjective but all of the projects either were sold or rented out very quickly.

"City Council is supposed to do what is bet for the residents of Mountain View. Unfortunately, Mayor John Inks, Vice-Mayor Chris Clark, VTA Representative Margaret Abe-Koga, Councilmember Ronit Bryant, and Councilmember R. Michael Kasperzak, Jr. are puppets for the out of town developers."

Really, now who's name calling? You left out McAlistar and Seigel. Who are they puppets for or do you like them just because they are no growth like you. All council members ran on platforms that spelled out what they believe. The majority of this town elected a council that respects private property rights. Its is the property owners that seek to develop their property. They are residents just like you and me, so council must represent their interests as well as yours.

@ village.sanantonio,

"At the rate apartment residents are increasing in Mountain View, they
might outnumber the number of people in all the single family residences
in Mountain View."

They have since the 1980 census. There is nothing new taking place here. Mtn View has always had more rental units than homeowners.

Don't bother talking to Political Insider. He just makes stuff up to get people mad and is ignorant of the basics of living in this city. Did you see the thread where he claims that we could have voted by absentee ballot this year?!

Web Link

So, just let what he says go.. .it's not worth the effort.

I find the comment about the state of downtown Los Altos at night and on the weekends quite funny. It is clearly spoken by someone that chooses to ignore the facts.

Downtown Los Altos, especially on the weekends, is EXACTLY the pedestrian-friendly, walk-to-it environment that proponents of the San Antonio center project claim to want for that area. The difference is that it is not hostile to car traffic and it is organic to the area. The new center is too tall, too "modern" (read that as "will look silly in a very few years), and too hostile to the people not living INSIDE the development.

Add to that the fact that these new units will pump more kids into the LASD without Mountain View putting the least amount of effort into providing more school space for the area and you might understand why this is not all sunshine and rainbows.

I will continue to do the bulk of my commerce in Los Altos until my city learns to embrace ALL its residents.

I still miss Hal's Music Store at the center. I bought my first 45 RPM record there in 1969!!!

So true about Los Altos, downtown is a sweet place to be, even though it has the same development pressure as any where else, residents seems to have a council that represents the residents.

All thse "studies" about phase 2,3,4, 5 don't seem to properly address, as posters in thread have, is the traffic on San Antonio!

Attempting to put a regional shopping center in the middle of surface streets and not upgrading the infrastructure is kind of crazy.
San Antonio is already jam packed.
It just seems that the developer saw a big parking lot on google maps and landed into town with all kinds of promises and a pliable city council.
Too bad we can't vote on it.

@ John,

"All thse "studies" about phase 2,3,4, 5 don't seem to properly address, as posters in thread have, is the traffic on San Antonio!"

Every large project has a traffic and parking study. Phase I had a study and since it provided housing, the study concluded the project would reduce traffic. Phase II will likely yield similar results. (there are no phase 3-5) Traffic studies use the baseline of current zoning when comparing the impact of a new project. As much as some people complain about traffic and parking, the studies dont support them.

San Antonio Traffic Study needs a day in court :-)
Otherwise the reality and truth will be bent so badly
that it will make it to the Guinness Records for being
the most creative report.

Any study that says that san Antonio traffic is not a problem
must be flawed. Don't waste money on these studies. Just drive
on the lovely road everyday and experience it. Those of us who
sit at every signal know exactly what is going on.

Any well designed city will not put a major shopping center in
a location away from freeways. Mountain View's city planners
I wish would put all major shopping, apartment and office complexes
along 101, central expressway near the entry/exits. They did a
great job with Costco and the surrounding shopping space near Rengstorf.

It would have been better to convert the San Antonio shopping
center space into a town home / condo / single-family complex
like the one that was done on Grant Road.

Anyway truth will always prevail. There is no doubt.
That is what Mahatma Gandhi said :-)
But San Antonio Road traffic congestion will be irreversible.

As I thought, any 'study" about traffic impacts is false, in order to support the developer. Any "study" about phase 1 which says that the traffic would be reduced is laughable. The joke is on us.

@village.sanantonio and John

So no amount of evidence will convince you of their validity. Sounds similar to the birthers and CC deniers

My inside sources and evdence are the backups and gridlock at San Antonio/Middlefield, Central/Rengstorff, San Antonio/California and of course on El Camino.

Of course a "study" will say otherwise when its made to deceive a gullible political insider.

Again, please ignore "Political Insider" who is nothing more than a Developer shill. He said: "Phase I had a study and since it provided housing, the study concluded the project would reduce traffic..."

Which is incredibly misleading.

Traffic studies look at how the property is currently zoned and what the potential traffic *could be* if there were successful businesses operating there (and fully rented, etc..) That number is completely *Phantom*. It doesn't reflect current reality, but only what might be the property's potential under current zoning.
Then, they guess/forecast at what the traffic would be if MG completes the next phase. Compare the two numbers and lo-and-behold, they are very close together, showing no significant traffic impact.

Of course if you compare the existing traffic #'s to the forecasted ones, then you would see a very big jump. But...that would be politically embarrassing to document, so they do this theoretical tomfoolery in order to push the project through.

One more year and the Council will change. Hopefully, we will have some candidates that are desiring to preserve the character of a city that enticed us to move here...

BadforMtnView and John, could you please run for council?

I would, but I'm a taxpaying, mortgage holder resident with a full time job and a family.
We see what happens when someones runs for council as as independent per the last election.
Without public union and developer support, plus the politcal machine, a common taxpaying resident doesn't have much of chance.

We need a 'we've had enough" movemment like Palo Alto did on tuesday.

@John and @Resident -- I haven't given up yet! Last year was my first campaign of any type and I learned a lot. I am definitely running again next year and I think my chances of making the Council this time (now that I've paid my dues) are pretty good!

Once I am on the Council, I will do my best to protect small, local businesses from being driven out of business. I have been and will continue to be outspoken in my support of the Milk Pail, Rose Market, and all the restaurants in the North Bayshore that seem to be under siege.


Jim Neal
Old Mountain View

@ John and BadForMtnView

"a gullible political insider",
" "Political Insider" who is nothing more than a Developer shill."

I will ignore your immature name calling. I feel like I am taking advantage of both of you with my superior knowledge. Are both of you HS students?
The parking studies use the base at full build out because a property owner could always build to the max zoning without seeking any approval from the city. So it doesn't make sense to compare a new project to a vacant lot or an under-utilized plot of land.

At least Jim Neal is willing to put his name in the hat. If he can run, so can you guys. Try running on your no growth platform and see where it gets you.

Let me get my high school logic out and try to fathom the superior knowledge of one who is all to superior-sounds like a politician who will "educate" us on what we need. See town square article 'Council: Bond measure for pricey facilities a no-go".

So, back to the traffic study. If I say that I will build out to the limits of my property and and use that as a base, I can then claim that there is a REDUCTION in traffic if I don't build out to maximum?

I've dealt with the traffic engineers for neighborhood mitigation, probably have to again because Monta Loma will be a prime cut through for the googlers and the MG phases, and this is the sort of logic they use. Not everyone is speeding down the streets. Therefore, there is no speeding.
So I really don't blame Tom, all politicians think this way. That's why they are so out of touch and cozy up to the money.

Once again Political Insider is attempting to manipulate the facts:
"The parking studies use the base at full build out because a property owner could always build to the max zoning without seeking any approval from the city. So it doesn't make sense to compare a new project to a vacant lot or an under-utilized plot of land. "

Once again, we discover that Political Insider doesn't care about the residents and quality of life here. A "property owner could always build to the max zoning.." Well, guess what Mr. Insider, MG DID NOT built to the max zoning. Guess what Mr. Insider, MG DID NOT indicate any interest in doing so. Just like other projects, they will do expansion unless they get approval to jam every last cubic foot of the lot with concrete and buildings in order to maximize every last dime of profit potential. Screw the residents.

Also, you called it a "parking study"--they did a *traffic study*. Do you not understand the difference between parking and traffic?! Or are you once again trying to bend reality to match your twisted world view?

It's people like you, Mr. Political Insider, that profited from working against the residents and for some reason continues to take pleasure in supporting the destruction of our fine city.

Thanks Jim Neal,

We're glad to see that your running again and haven't given up.
There is some serious arrogance in out elected representatives and city staff.
(as an example-the so called political insider). They forget who they are working for and have succumbed to the glossy images and promises of an out of town developer.
Phase one is nothing more than a strip mall with dense overpriced apartments.
Phase two is more of the same.

I apologize in advance for the lengthy post, but I hope people will choose to read the post, and further, hit on the links provided and definitely read the 'Draft Transportation Impact Analysis'

I have been following the the Jay Paul development proposal at 395 Page Mill road in Palo Alto and read the article posted in the PA Weekly yesterday discussing Jay Paul's withdraw of their application for development of 395 Page Mill Road (which included a new police headquarters for Palo Alto = "significant public benefit") saying, "In view of the current political climate in Palo Alto, we have decided to withdraw our application for a Planned Community Development at 395 Page Mill Road/3045 Park Boulevard, ...".

I have been paying attention to what has been going on in Palo Alto with regard to the amount of development that has been happening as well as the referendum that was recently held regarding a development proposal on Maybell Avenue. City Council had re-zoned the site on Maybell Avenue and unanimously approved the project. Unhappy with council's decision (for numerous reasons) residents of Palo Alto garnered enough signatures to force a referendum be placed on the ballot. The city attorney of Palo Alto wrote the language of the referendum, known as Measure D. The city vastly outspent the grass roots campaign against Measure D, and opted to spend the money on a special election to decide the fate of this development. Measure D failed and the development as Palo Alto city council had approved is now off the table.

That's just back story needed to understand Jay Paul's withdrawing their application for 395 Page Mill, which would have required significant up-zoning and had been on a fast track for approval.

Anyway, reading this article (see link below) about the Jay Paul project in the weekly, I hit the link for the 151 page draft traffic analysis, and boy was that EYE POPPING! I would encourage anyone who is interested in how traffic on El Camino Real flows and where it is headed, to read this document. The Jay Paul project both during construction and after completion would have had significant impact to numerous major arterial roads that would impact ALL of who travel on these roads. One of the intersections included in this traffic analysis was San Antonio & El Camino.

Article in Palo Alto Weekly:
Web Link

Draft Transportation Impact Analysis
Web Link



I snipped some interesting data from this analysis only regarding this one intersection, San Antonio and El Camino, but the traffic analysis is worth reading to understand just how significantly this one project would have impacted everyone who lives and works in the area, including residents of Mountain View.



Specifically,

"The City of Mountain View uses a LOS D standard for local street intersections and a LOS E standard for intersections within the Downtown and San Antonio Center areas and CMP facilities." (found on page 5)

D = Average delay per vehicle 35-55 seconds: "Operations with longer delays due to a combination of unfavorable progression, long cycle lengths, and high volume-to-capacity (V/C) ratios. Many vehicles stop and individual cycle failures are noticeable"

E = Average delay per vehicle 35-55 seconds: 55-80 seconds: "Operations with high delay values indicating poor progression, long cycle lengths, and high V/C ratios. Individual cycle failures are frequent occurrences."

F = Average delay per vehicle > 80 seconds: "Operations with delays unacceptable to most drivers occurring due to over-saturation, poor progression, or very long cycle lengths."

~~~~~

Skip ahead to page #35 to find:

San Antonio Road and El Camino Real*
2/27/2013 AM 45.9 = D
2/13/2013 PM 48.3 D

~~~~~

Now skip ahead to page #77 to read about the impact to San Antonio and El Camino DURING the four years of anticipated project construction, caused by just this one project and exclusive of any construction going on at San Antonio and El Camino (or anywhere else in Mountain View which would result in San Antonio and El Camino carrying additional construction traffic)

San Antonio Road and El Camino Real*
AM 64.2 - 65.9 seconds = E
PM 80.4 - 82.5 seconds = F

~~~~~

And on page #89:

"The following intersections do not meet their respective LOS threshold for AM and/or PM under Cumulative with Project Conditions."

~ Intersection #28 – San Antonio Road and El Camino Real (AM and PM peak hours)

AM: 80.6 - 83.3 seconds = F
PM: 82.9 - 85.1 seconds = F

Mitigated Conditions = Significant and unavoidable (impact)
(*...intersection operates at a deficient Level of Service = a significant impact.)

~~~~~

And ahead to page #94:

"Based on the impact criteria listed in Chapter 1, the proposed project will have a significant cumulative impact at the following ten (10) study intersections during the indicated peak hours:

Intersection #28 – San Antonio Road and El Camino Real (AM peak hour)"

~~~~~

And a note on page #98

San Antonio Road / El Camino Real (Intersection #28) –

"The addition of project traffic under Cumulative with Project Conditions exacerbates unacceptable intersection operations during the AM peak hour. The addition of a second eastbound left-turn lane would mitigate the project impact and improve intersection operations to an acceptable level during the AM and PM peak hours to LOS E operations. This impact would remain significant and unavoidable under Cumulative with Project Conditions because this intersection is outside the control of the City of Palo Alto, which cannot be certain at this time that improvements will be implemented. No other feasible mitigation measures have been identified."

@mvresident67 - Interesting to note that the Palo Alto draft traffic study doesn't seem to mention the proposed BRT VTA project.

@Curious:

Not only does the Draft Transportation Impact Analysis not mention any iteration of a VTA's proposed BRT project, but I believe the study of the intersection #28 - San Antonio and El Camino - was done PRIOR to Phase One of San Antonio Center having been completed, and as far as I could tell there was no mention of the impact of Phase Two of San Antonio Center, which is massive in scale and most certainly will have a negative impact on the intersection, as well as a ripple effect thru numerous neighborhood streets.

To consider these projects and their relative traffic impacts in a stand alone fashion (a relative vacuum) is short sighted, at best. Certainly City Council and staff are well aware of the numerous projects (within Mountain View) that are in various stages of planning and approval, so to allow projects to be approved without considering the cumulative impacts of other projects with them, well some might say that's a tad disingenuous.

I hope people begin to pay attention not only to the projects that are being approved in Mountain View, but in our neighboring cities as well, as we will be impacted by ALL of these projects.